*** Official KILL BILL: VOLUME 2 Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[MatS]

or could it be that when she is in her Bride persona she is a superhero and a superhero does not reveal ones true identity (Beatrix) for all to know

 

[Matt Stone]

My audience had the same reaction. It was a full house and a very enthusiastic bunch.

 

[Gary->dee]

I, as well as the rest of the audience, clapped and cheered when Beatrix stepped on her eye squishing it with her foot. Speaking for myself, I clapped because I couldn't believe I had just seen that shit actually happen in a movie. I think I was applauding the audacity of it and the balls to put it on screen more than the actual act of revenge. I pretty much had the same reaction when Anakin went nuts in Episode 2 and started hacking at the Tuskens(the lady sitting next to me looked at me in a weird way). That whole sequence with her plucking out her eye was definitely a 'whoa' moment though. Came out of left field, but then again she pulled the same stunt on one of the Crazy 88's in vol.1. And I liked the way it all tied together with how Elle lost her right eye with Pai Mei. That's why I liked the 'Elle and I' chapter the best; because it was the most satisfying not only in terms of action but backstory.

I stuck around all the to the end for the outtake too.

 

[Scott Weinberg]

In 2+ hours we couldn't get one off-hand mention of what became of Sophie??

Or did I miss it?

 

[Gary->dee]

Good point, Scott. I missed the beautiful Julie Dreyfus...sigh...

I guess Sofie and Elle could come back for Vol.3.

 

[George_W_K]

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing and I think that actually has fuelled some of my disappointment with this movie. (And I wanted to see Julie Dreyfuss again.)

I loved the Elle and I scene. That eye was the best.

 

[Seth Paxton]

No way Sofie made it. I felt certain that Bill was going to take her out based on the scenes in KB1.


So BB is obviously "B"ill and "B"eatrix, but since no one mentioned it I figured I put it out there in case it wasn't obvious to everyone.


Also, I loved being able to come home from the film and get another fix by putting in a bit of KB1 DVD.

 

[Damin J Toell]

Except she did, er, kill Bill.

DJ

 

[Chazz_S]

Yeah, that was kinda the point wasn't it?

On the subject of Bill, aside from the fact that I think Carridine totally owned the role, I think Beatty would've made a lousy Bill.

 

[Ken Chan]

It bothered me more than when cutting off the crust, he simply pressed down with that big knife, instead of moving back or forth with a slicing motion, and letting the knife do the work. The guy is supposed to be a master swordsman

Pai Mei sounded like genuine Cantonese to me. Unless QT is also a fluent speaker -- a man of many talents -- he didn't dub the speech. (And it didn't sound like him anyway.) From what I gather, QT was originally going to play that role; maybe that's the source of confusion.

 

[Chris Woodard]

From what I remember from the script, the idea was that most of the scenes with Pai Mei would be poorly dubbed (intentionally) into English for both Pai Mei and the bride. I guess Tarantino was going to be the english voice. But somewhere along the line he abandoned the idea.

 

[Alex Spindler]

Now that I've seen Vol 2, I broke out the Kill Bill script I got from the unofficial website. It provides some potential answers for those of us wondering the original intentions of the film. Now, I will clearly preface this with the acknowledgement that QT may have easily made some of the changes in the film as they were being filmed, indeed he is said to have been writing scenes as they were filming, but it is an amazing read in how accuractely filmed some sequences were.

Highlights:
- Black and White sequence intended, but it was supposed to be black blood. Perhaps a mistake in the filming or QT had a change of heart and didn't dye the blood the intended color for filming?
- O-Ren's origin wasn't anime, but a later sequence of her was supposed to be.
- Two extra chapters, one solely featuring Bill, that replace the opening church and Esteban chapters.
- Nothing whatsoever to suggest they sepia toned sequence you can catch glances of in the trailers of Bill fighting Micheal Jai White (at least I think that was who it was supposed to be.

Note that I am a bit obsessive on anything that catches my interest, so this is a long list and it was built entirely at the expense of sleep. And these are obviously spoilers, but nobody should be in this thread who hasn't seen both films.

Notable changes:

• Intro with bloody bride includes some voice over and shots of the dead people in the church.
• Notably says the intro's black and white nature makes the blood black. He was clearly cognizant of how to shoot in black and white.
• Has the black and white Bride "I'm gonna Kill Bill" section from Kill Bill 2.
• Bleeps out Beatrix's name throughout the early portions of the script.
• Slight differences in how the Vernita dialogue goes (although much of it is unchanged) and how she dies is a bit different too.
• There isn't a Hanzo voice over of the Forest/Straight Line passage.
• Chapter 2 is The Comatose Bride instead of The Blood Spattered Bride and is essentially missing the entire cop and son review of the church massacre. It skips right ahead to Elle's intro at the hospital
• Elle's syringe is labeled 'Goodbye Forever', named in a similar way to Bill's Undisputed Truth in KBv2.
• Elle's conversation with Bill on the cell phone is completely without Bill's side of the conversation. The dialogue on Elle's part is practically the same, and her responses are written to allow for a one sided scene.
• The bride automatically spits on Elle during a curiously written post-cell phone scene and Elle punches her three times.
• There is a pretty funny post sequence where a man is dying and a doctor asks for help, to which Elle, still dressed as a nurse, says "Tough titty, I quit".
• After The Bride wakes up, there is a strange little complication where she confuses Buck and his footsteps for Bill and is confused a great deal.
• There are two truckers paying $75 a piece, along with some apparent lower frontal nudity on Uma's part.
• The jar that Buck produces is actually written as 'the most disgusting jar of vaseline in the history of cinema'.
• Buck apparently doesn't have the Elvis-style sunglasses on him, they are in his truck instead.
  [8}There is a cool little sequence where they have a sort of Charlies Angels intro for the DiVAS.
• O-Ren's intro is very shortly written, and is not anime.
• The bride buys some supplies in town.
• There is a sequence where she draws a bath in a motel room and essentially cries out her humanity to emerge as a person of pure vengence.
• The Bride drives out an unearths a cache of weapons, to include the KBv2 straight razor she uses in the coffin.
• She goes to a bank and withdraws several safety deposit boxes of money and fake passports. It also includes a syringe of Bill's Undisputed Truth serum.
• The bride sews a handkerchief with the name Bill in the corner, emulating the one Bill has at the intro. Notably, she uses this to wipe Vernita's blood from her knife in the first chapter.
• There is no Air-O sequence, although they do have the map-level hop to Okinawa.
• Hanzo doesn't have as much conversation with his assistant, and none of it is subtitled.
• Interestingly, the intro for The House of Blue Leaves is anime, and depicts O-Ren and her army battling for ownership of the Japanese underworld.
• There are slight differences in how the Boss Tanaka beheading scene goes.
• They do not introduce Sofie, Go Go, or Johnny Mo in this scene.
• There isn't a second Air-O sequence, a flyover of a model Tokyo, a drive by of Sofie, or the motorcycle.
• There are two Yubari sisters, Go Go and Yuki. Johnny Mo is apparently replaced with an American named Mr. Barrel. It is here they are formally introduced to the audience. The Go Go disembowling flashback is not present.
• No Charlie Brown stuff.
• Sofie tells the joke in the club. It's in Japanese and not subtitled.
• Yuki leaves at the same time as Sofie and apparently leaves the club before any commotion.
• The Bride confronts Sofie differently, and it is during a bout of Crazy 88 karaoke that The Bride calls them out.
• There is no indication that Sofie was at the church.
• The bride (who does the same sword lift as in the movie) kill someone underneath the floor as well.
• Yuki and Mr. Barrel don't attack before the Crazy 88 reinforcements arrive.
• There are far fewer Crazy 88s than in the movie, I think as few as 25.
• The film converts at some point in the following way: 'BY THE COLOR IN THE FILM POPPING OFF, and the fight being filmed in HIGH CONTRAST BLACK AND WHITE, turning the squirting, spewing geysers of BLOOD FROM CRIMSON RED To OIL BLACK.'
• The Bride uses a boomerang she had gotten from her buried stash earlier in the film.
• Color returns at about the same point as the film, with a handful off 88s left.
• The Bride doesn't chastise an immature 88.
• The Bride fights someone like Johnny Mo but he is only referred to as 'The Best One'.
• The Bride actually fights Go Go after having finished the 88s off.
• The plea that the Bride gives Go Go in the film is not present before they fight.
• The Bride actually ends up biting off Go Go's earlobe during the fight.
• The Bride dispatches Go Go with her own ball and chain as Go Go limps up the stairs.
• A plea presented to Mr. Barrel, who accepts and leaves without a fight. It is phrased very differently from the Go Go plea, apparently playing on Mr. Barrel's nationality and O-Ren's abusive attitude. he Bride "owes" him and says "Tough luck bout that arm Sofie." as he leaves.
• The dialogue in the snow occurs inside the House before they move out into the garden.
• O-Ren has some more post-scalping dialogue.
• The Bride again wipes the blood with her Bill handkerchief.
• The Bride uses the truth serum on Sofie in the trunk.
• There is an odd conversation about Yuki Yubari, where Sofie posits how she will react to her sister's death. Yuki is shown to cry, then drink, then to perform the disembowling scene that the movie Go Go does. Then Sofie says that Yuki will come looking for the Bride for revenge. When asked if she is skilled and can beat the Bride, Sofie says skilled isn't the word. She'll be 'crazy'.
• Bill, out of shot, still talks with the maimed Sofie and guesses that The Bride will go for Vernita next and will be in a Hawthorne hotel. Yuki, present at the Sofie confession, is going to go to California to catch the Bride.
• There is no teaser about The Bride's daughter being alive.
• The Bride is sewn up by Hattori Hanzo.
• There is an entirely new chapter called 'Yuki's Revenge'. In it, the movie shots of THe Bride in the airport are interspersed with shots of Yuki having fun in California, stalking her at Vernita's house and then confronting her as she leaves her apartment. They have a similar plea as the movie presents to Go Go, at which Yuki fires an SMG at the Bride, missing and destroying the Pussy Wagon. They then have a running gun battle through a neighborhood with grenades used a couple of times. The end the fight with Yuki finally charging after she should be dead because she took some blue powder that Bill gave her. The Bride is shot several times, so she calls up a nurse known as B. Owens who is bribed to help her.
• There is an entirely new chapter called "Can she bake a cherry pie" where Bill is formally introduced to the audience. He plays a loaded crap game against a girl and her friends and throws winning rolls time and again. He announces his intention to break the bank because she charges an enormous entrance fee other things. He gets a call from Elle announcing Vernita's death and says that he has to go to Budd and talk some sense into him. Then he leaves, at which the girl sends her henchmen to get the money and his fingers. Bill is ready and kills them all. It turns out that Bill was accomplishing a hit on her anyway, but he has a unique philosophy toward performing hits.
• Elle is present at the Bill/Budd scene, although she stays in the car.
• There is a bit of joviality about The Bride bringing 'they boys' back together, referring to estranged siblings Budd and Bill.
• The bar that Budd works in has more people in it when he arrives, and he isn't called in by the manager to get suspended.
• The Bride arrives at the club to kill him, but sees him have to clean up a drunk's vomit and delays killing him.
• The Bride, having followed Budd in her vehicle, has to select a weapon to kill him with. She does not wait under his trailer. Despite his fall in status, she still chooses to use a sword to honor him.
• Budd, having disabled her with rock salt, turns her over, reloads, and shoots her in the butt with more rock salt.
• When he calls Elle, Elle is sparring with a boxing coach.
• Budd appears reluctant to kill, making reference to a pact he made with Jesus.
• Elle initially offers to buy the sword for $100k, but Budd makes it a million. And he is having Elle buy it because he doesn't want any of Bill's money.
• Budd's digging partner Ernie (Ernesto?) apparently only understands Spanish, and they have some unsubtitled dialogue together.
• All of the dialogue between them is in spanish. The line about 'I've seen better' is lifted from the dialogue of the two truckers at the hospital ealier, and isn't present here. Also, Ernie doesn't speak to the bride as all the translated dialogue is Budd's.
• Budd doesn't say he is doing this because she broke his brother's heart.
• The Bride claws at the wood before calming down, bloodying up her fingers. She also talks herself into calming down.
• Elle calls from the plane just as Budd is driving off and is happy to hear The Bride is currently suffering.
• Bill's story about Pei Mei is demonstrated through onscreen footage.
• The deadly maneuver is referred to as the ten-point palm exploding heart technique, not five as in the film. Pei Mei is shown using it on five monks, who die in five steps.
• Some of their dialogue is carried over to the Jeep on the way to the temple.
• The Bride and Pei Mei trade words before she first sees him, so she doesn't 'wake him' as in the film.
• There is an interesting convention where their use of Mandarin is not subtitled but dubbed in english out of sync with their lips.
• Their fight is slightly different, with Pei Mei destroying the sword instead of throwing it back onto the rack.
• Included in their training is a scene wheere the Bride must kill a rat or be forced to eat it. She loses, but chooses to eat only the rats heart.
• The Bride is shown punching through the wall successfully. She demonstrates this to Pei Mei and he says impressive and then moves her closer to the wall than before to begin again.
• Elle, lording over the dying Budd, says she has many 'R's in her, such as Revenge, Retribution, Rivalry, and Respect for the Bride.
• Elle passively uses the sword to kill the Black Mamba snake.
• The Bride lets Elle leave the trailer and get into her Trans Am and then T-bones it with a new red truck.
• The Bride gets out of the truck and goes into the trailer for Budd's Hanzo sword before going outside to face Elle.
• Elle provides Bill's location, not Esteban as in the movie.
• There is no close quarters fighting inside the trailer.
• The Bride and Elle duel outside with swords only. It goes quickly, with a bit of delayed effect as the Bride scores a killing strike on Elle's neck, causing a mist of blood to come out. The Bride strokes her hair as she dies and then buries her.
• There isn't an Esteban section.
• Bill is originally found leaving his home with the Bride following him. He goes to an Institution, where the Bride intends to shoot him with a sniper rifle. She refers to this as bushwackin', but feels she must do it to be unpredictable. But she is stopped when it turns out that Bill is there to pick up B.B. It is the first time she, and the audience have a clue that the Bride's daughter has lived.
• The Bride calls Bill on his cell phone on the way back and they discuss B.B. She isn't initially convinced it is her child Bill takes a shot of her during a moment when she drives up close to see B.B., but he doesn't hit her. Bill invites her to dinner. A bit of the house dialogue is here instead.
• The Bride calls Hattori Hanzo to tell him her daughter is alive. Hanzo advises her that Bill's strength is in being unexpected and that she must be unexpected to win.
• The Bride, being unexpected, arrives at Bill's house and kills all of his guards with a shotgun. She spares the female cook only, shoving her into a closet.
• The Bride explains the blood on her dress from some of the guards she killed as being Kool-Aid
• All of the dialogue is at a dinner table in front of a formal dinner prepared by the cook that The Bride spares. The Bride is not shown lying down with B.B. or watching Shogun Assassins.
• The Bride goes out to meet Bill around dawn, where he is having a glass of wine. He suggests that she should have a glass so he won't be unfairly inebriated.
• Bill narrates the Esteban Lana Turner monologue, which was the inspiration behind the filmed section in KBv2.
• There isn't a Superman monologue.
• The Bride confesses about the pregnency/Karen Kim episode without being shot with a truth serum dart. Some of it is narrated, some shown. She is also shown to be elated by the news that she is pregnant and was trying to call Bill to share the news.
• The Bride isn't able to get a pistol, so there isn't the two gun standoff. She talks Karen out of killing her empty handed.
• Bill doesn't describe his attempted murder of the Bride as an 'overreaction'.
• Before they fight, Bill says that he is proud of the Bride and has been rooting for her to win. But he isn't going to lay down for her.
• The Bride and Bill meet each other on a beach at dawn. It plays similarly to the film, although she fights him one handed with a sheathed sword. When they lock together, like the movie Elle and Bride locked swords, she unleashes the five point attack.
• You can audiably hear Bill's heart explode.
• She takes out her sword and wipes it in the blood coming from his mouth, then wipes the little bit of blood into the Bill handkerchief she made. She then drops the handkerchief on Bill's body.
• There are a couple of intended shots before the final Motel room scene or B.B. and Beatrix in various situations.

 

[Andy Sheets]

I didn't like this one very much, though. IIRC, the Michael Jai White sequence was to be the replacement for it, until they decided to chop it out altogether.

 

[Haggai]

Ahhh, that makes a lot of sense to me. The whole "crappy English dubbing" thing that's so common in Asian martial arts movies was one aspect that didn't get an homage in either Volume of KB, so surely that was on QT's mind at some point. I think it would have been really funny for a little bit, but then it probably would have gotten tiresome, as the Pai Mei training sequence was pretty intense and involving.

And the official press notes do say that QT was thinking about physically playing Pai Mei himself for a while, but then he realized that there would be no time for him to do all that martial arts training with all the pre-production work that had to be done. Good thing, too, I think it would have been pretty shambolic if he'd actually played the role. The cinema gods put you on Earth to be behind the camera, QT, not in front of it!

 

[Steven Simon]

Just came back from an afternoon showing... I thought the movie was terrific if I can say the least. You can't really look at this film as a second part... In my eyes, it's no more than a continuation of the first. A big movie sliced in half... The training scenes were beautiful done, as we'll as Bill's demise......

Like stated above, this movie needs to be cut together....
The only scene I felt wasn't needed was the Bar scene with bud... Other than that, Bravo!!!!

 

[Mark-W]

I think the "Elle and I" chapter should be respelled
"Elle and Eye." (Honestly, I am sure QT gave it the
title he did with a double meaning.)

 

[Patrick Sun]

But that would negate the pun.

I saw it a second time, and it played a little better, but I still hated Bud's crappy job sequence, and the ending is still overly drawn out.

The Pai Mei chapter is the most entertaining chapter, followed by "Elle and I" chapter.

I did notice that Gordon Liu played not only Pai Mei, but also Johnny Mo, the bald baddie from the Crazy 88's.

I'll probably bump my rating for it up to a B or B-.

 

[Haggai]

For the people who would rather have this as one big movie cut together, what about having the House of Blue Leaves sequence in the middle of a movie? Isn't it tailor made to be the centerpiece of the climax to a movie? I have to think there would be somewhat of a let-down if the rest of the KB saga played out as it did directly after that sequence, uninterrupted. And this point is independent of any scenes in Vol. 2 that felt sort of extraneous, which I do think applies to some of them (like Budd losing his job, and Samuel L. Jackson as the organ player in what amounts to nothing more than a "hey, that's him!" cameo).

 

[Patrick Sun]

Considering I watched Vol. 1 right before seeing Vol. 2, this is why I was underwhelmed by Vol. 2 on my first viewing. I won't recommend that people see Vol. 1 right before Vol. 2 for that reason.

 

[Parris]

I have to disagree. I watched Vol 1 prior to seeing Vol 2 and I felt it enhanced my viewing. I viewed the two movies as a whole and didn't really expect the Bill/Beatrix ending to be an all out bloodfest since we got that with House of Blue Leaves. My only complaint is that every character was fleshed out except Vernita.