Normalize MP3 Collection? (1 Viewer)

[Andy Hardin]

I'm in the process of building a computer based, touchscreen, mp3 jukebox for my gameroom. One of the problems that I am encountering during the process of digitizing my entire CD collection is the variances in "loudness" that have been discussed many times here in the audio forum. Older CD's are "quieter" than the newer CD's due to the production methods used.

Once I transfer all of my albums to the jukebox I would like to be able to normalize the volume of the entire collection so that each song that comes from the jukebox is a "constant" volume. Very rarely will an entire album be played at once, instead classic rock will mix with 80's will mix with newer albums.

I'm not concerned with possible sound quality loss (as long as it is minimal) from this process, but what I am wondering is if anyone knows of a utility that will take an mp3 collection, normalize it, and correct (rewite?) the files to the normalized volume level.

Any input appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Well, any mp3 encoder worth anything will Normalize tracks for you. Nero's Audio Editor would do the trick. The problem is that recent CDs have compressed the dynamics to the high end. So even if you normalized all your songs to a standard volume, some songs would still sound louder because everything's shoved into the high end of the volume.

 

[Andy Hardin]

Exactly, I can normalize on the album (or ripping session) level, but not at the entire collection level.

So normalizing an entire new album when I rip and then an entire old album still leaves me with the same problem, they normalize against themselves. I need to find an overall benchmark to normalize against.

 

[Nathan_W]

Andy:
Probably the best utility for this: mp3gain
Completely lossless...
Sidenote: How are you encoding your mp3s? LAME?

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Normalizing sets peak level- which will do exactly jack for you-- 99.9% of discs are already normalized to max level at peaks.
Check my piece in the FAQ and PRIMER about volume differences and why it happens.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...24#post1219924
-Vince

 

[JeffMuller]

Vince,

But why do they compress the dynamic range so much now?

It's a waste.

Jeff

 

[Patrick Larkin]

Isn't this a function of whatever application is doing the playback? for instance, iTunes has the little checkbox that says "Automatically adjust song playback volume to the same level"

 

[Andy Hardin]

Nathan - Yes, I am using LAME
Patrick - It may be a function of the software. Remember my application is a touchscreen jukebox, so the software I am using is specifically tailored to that, and does not have as many playback features as a more robust product like iTunes.
You can check it out here (and some project examples), under Virtual Jukebox:
http://www.cybertechdesign.net/mameroom/#

 

[Nathan_W]

Nathan - Yes, I am using LAME

Ahhh, just wondering.
About Mp3gain, have you had a chance to try it out? It'll do exactly what you want. Just don't do your entire collection at once, it'll probably take forever...

 

[John_Bonner]

I'll second MP3Gain.

For what Andy is trying to accomplish, this (free)program will do the job.

I have over 1,000 mp3s on my office laptop which is hooked up to speakers. I used to have to reach for the volume knob throughout the day to to varying degrees of "loudness" amongst different songs. I installed MP3Gain ran the files through using the "Radio" feature and now they are all very close to each other volume-wise...no more reaching for the volume knob.

The one thing that sort-of bothered me (if I remember correctly) was that by running all of these files through the software you were losing dynamic compression? I'm not sure about this but I thought I remember reading this in the help file. Although Nathan_W says the end result is lossless.

Download the program and try it out on a few mp3s that are very different in terms of volume.

 

[Nathan_W]

The one thing that sort-of bothered me (if I remember correctly) was that by running all of these files through the software you were losing dynamic compression? I'm not sure about this but I thought I remember reading this in the help file. Although Nathan_W says the end result is lossless.

Not quite sure if this is what you meant, but here's a link to a section in the FAQ that might help. The help file has more info, too, and explains how it actually is lossless...somewhere under 'concepts'.
One more note: the newer versions have renamed the 'radio' buttons to 'track'.

 

[Vic_T]

The track will have to be normalized while they are being created. Once they are in MP3 form, there is not way to normalize the tracks after the fact. There may be some MP3 players out there that will re-adjust the volume on the fly to keep the level consistant on playback, but I am not aware of one.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

...But why do they compress the dynamic range so much now?
It's a waste.
Jeff

Ahh, the question of the new century.
My theory (although others thought of it first) is: because of the CD Changer. No one wants to have a CD that is lower in volume than the other CD that might be in there. So that new Michelle Branch CD won't seem quieter than that new Creed CD that comes right after it in the changer.
It's those A+R people that are listed so prominently on newer pop CD's these days. They are everywhere now. It's their fault, and they all have CD changers.

Actually, that's not far from the truth.
Joel

 

[Mikael Soderholm]

...But why do they compress the dynamic range so much now?

To make it sound good in cars, or on people's boom boxes, or whatever equipment they use to listen to it on... :frowning:
It really is a shame. Why bother with new media such as SACD or DVD-Audio when we are nowhere near utilizing the full extent of existing media such as CDs?

 

[John Watson]

We should have a thread - why is it so hard to make cds?
In my year of experience with CD-RW, and pleasing if limited amount of success, I have been more than amazed at the number of people on many sites who have problems of all sorts with their cd burning - incompatible media; "medium speed errors"; opaque messages from their software; burned out burners, etc. On Nero, Roxio, ezCD, etc. By comparison, the simplest recording tape deck allows adjusting the volume of inputs, and the pause feature allows control of "space" between audio tracks.
But I've just seen Jim Coates' January 11 computer column at The Chicago Tribune called "Computer Burner Does So Much More", in which he effectively states that a new software, CD MAKER, from Broderbund, has made a giant step forward in simplifying the processes of all kinds of CD making (audio cd's, data backup cd, etc).
Is this true? The only thing in the short article that I did not see, was reference to the problem of wildly disparate sound levels, on different tracks, of the compilations we burn on cd. Makes me sceptical.
Here is a link to the Tribune, see the link with the article title, if anyone wants to look, tho you may have to register to do so.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/

 

[JeffMuller]

To make it sound good in cars, or on people's boom boxes, or whatever equipment they use to listen to it on...

But why wouldn't they just put this compression into the playback devices that might need it, and not mess with the quality of the source material??? (OK, so maybe I'm not really expecting an answer)

 

[Vic_T]

But why wouldn't they just put this compression into the playback devices that might need it, and not mess with the quality of the source material???

Because then people would actually have to learn how to use their equipment. For the averge person (some use the term 'Joe 6 Pack') this seems to be quit difficult. The alternative seems to be to ruin it for people that do enjoy dynamic range in their music. So sad.

 

[Keith Paynter]

Vince has the facts right. A peak of 0db on your meter is simply the loudest point. It is average volume of the material between -(infinity) and 0 where most of the music is consistant.

Listen to any FM (or AM for that matter) music station. All radio stations generally use some degree of compression/limiting for 2 reasons: first to have all the music perform at generally the same level (making rock stations sound punchier), and secondly to allow the compressed signal to be strong enough to extend the gap between program volume and the FM carrier signal. A fadeout leading into another song is less noticable over the air because the compression takes that signal and increases its volume. Definitely a plus when you're driving down the highway and the radio needs to be heard over the high speed of your car's engine - Why do you think you have to turn the volume down when you get back into the city and have to pull up to that first stop light/sign?

Most modern music is heavily compressed to accomodate the average car stereo or ghetto blaster. That's why it sounds like crap on a $1000 home theater system. Conversely, take a concert CD like Horowitz in London, play it on a fine stereo system, then try driving down the highway with it. It's gonna sound like crap, because you have to keep turning it up and down to be heard at a decent volume over the engine!

Radio and television ads are the same way - why do you think you have to turn the volume down during the commercial breaks? Because the music and dialogue are so heavily compressed (deliberately, in fact) that the average volume is significantly higher than during that drama you're watching.

You frequently have to adjust the volume while watching your own video library because the dynamic range is simply that much wider, and what works a large theater doesn't always work the same way at home in a more intimate sized environment. Think about that the next time something explodes during a movie!

Back to the matter at hand, I find using an audio program (such as Steinberg's 'Get It On CD') that allows me to modify the sound with compression and peak limiting allows me to create mix CD's with more consistant AVERAGE volume levels that work well for driving, using for breaks at gigs, and even for using on my work telephone hold system. The software also lets me trim leads and tails so that fades are shorter, and front silence is reduced to near nil.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

Most modern music is heavily compressed to accommodate the average car stereo or ghetto blaster. That's why it sounds like crap on a $1000 home theater system. Conversely, take a concert CD like Horowitz in London, play it on a fine stereo system, then try driving down the highway with it. It's gonna sound like crap, because you have to keep turning it up and down to be heard at a decent volume over the engine!

Bull.
I only say that because I absolutely HATE the way FM radio sounds on a car stereo - I don't care if it's an after market system or a "factory" stereo.
I much prefer the wider dynamics of the original recordings - even in the car. I just like to listen to my music rather loud as I'm driving. I set the quieter parts to just above engine and road noise and let the louder parts fall where they may - no knob twiddling.
The only time I turn things down is if I'm stopped at a traffic light for any length of time, or driving through my neighborhood - just to be courteous
Joel

 

[Jason Garrett]

I just got a copy of the Music Match Jukebox Plus 7.5 because PC Magazine touted it as the best media player out now and it has the option of volume leveling amongst many, many other really neat features. I found it while viewing my library and selecting a number of tracks then right clicking. 3/4 to the bottom of options is Prepare Tracks For Volume Leveling. I can't attest to just what this actually does, but it appears to do what you are looking for. You might read the website and see if it is what you are looking for.