Non-OAR in 2nd Run Movie (1 Viewer)

[Brad Eisenhauer]

I saw Ocean's 11 last night for the second time. This time was at the weekly 2nd run movies at the student union on campus. I was a bit puzzled because the print was not in its OAR. It was a 1.33:1 print that appeared to be open-matted in some parts and P&S'ed in others. The very first shot was the worst with a boom-mike clearly bobbing around just above George Clooney's head. Other parts looked as though they may have been P&S'ed (based on my visual imaginations of where the mattes would have to go if it were open-matte and how much picture would be left.) Has anyone ever seen this before, and where would a print like this come from? Why would a studio, much less a director, let something like that out of the cutting room?

 

[Jesse Skeen]

It sounds like this was a 16mm print (theaters use 35mm), 16mm was used mostly for educational films in schools but has been replaced by video, but they are still putting out current movies on 16mm for venues like this. I haven't personally seen any of these myself, but I've heard they're shown either open-matte, or if they were shot anamorphic, panned-and-scanned for 1.33. It's possible to do anamorphic on 16mm but the lenses are harder to come by; all 16mm projectors come with just a regular lens.

How is the sound on these? I don't know if it's possible to do stereo on 16mm; I have 2 16mm projectors and would like to get some of these movie prints but it's a toss-up if they only come with a mono soundtrack.

 

[Scott D S]

Hmm. Here at FSU, there were showings of Ocean's 11 last Thursday and Friday at the Student Life Theater. The film was presented in its original 2.35:1 aspect ratio and looked fine. Weird.

 

[Patrick McCart]

Oceans 11 was shot in the Super-35 process, so that's why it looked like that.

I'm puzzled to why the print wasn't a reduction print from the 2.35:1 anamorphic internegative.

 

[Scott H]

Oceans 11 was shot in the Super-35 process, so that's why it looked like that.

I'm not sure what S35 has to do with this any more than matted regular 35. The issue of P&S or open-matte is no more applicable to S35 than non-1.37:1 regular 35.

 

[Nate Anderson]

When it showed here at SCSU it was also 1.33:1. Bummer...

I know OAR can be done on 16 mm, since when they showed Pearl Harbor here, it was 2.35:1.

 

[Derek Miner]

I'm puzzled to why the print wasn't a reduction print from the 2.35:1 anamorphic internegative.

Probably because the majority of 16mm venues aren't going to do anamorphic presentation. Then they probably decide to treat it like VHS. Since a majority of viewers are going to see it shown at 1.37:1, they go with as close to an open-matte transfer as possible, unless something in the extra space absolutely has to be obscured. I'm curious why they wouldn't adjust the shot described above that had a boom in it.
As for anamorphic 16mm, I did several of those prints as well, most notably Grease and the first two Indiana Jones films. Perhaps I just had crappy equipment, but I found the 16mm anamorphic lenses impossible to focus properly across the full spread of the image. I also recall anamorphic 16mm resulted in a slightly wider aspect ratio than anamorphic 35mm. This doesn't make logical sense, I know, so I would appreciate anyone with more intimate knowledge of the situation to speak up.

 

[Scott H]

Well, it does help explain the end result. The point being made is that almost all 2.35:1 films that are extracted from a 1.37:1 frame are done with Super35.

Sure, most ~2.40:1 extractions are from a 1.33:1 (not 1.37:1) exposed S35 frame. But, regarding this 16mm projection issue, how is that any more significant than most 1.85:1 material being from a 1.37:1 frame? In other words, if the OAR is 1.66:1 or 1.85:1 or ~2.40:1 but being shown at the 16mm projection aperture of 1.33:1 the origination method isn't relevant is it? S35 doesn't seem to be relevant here. The issues are the same taking ~2.40:1 to 16mm no matter if it originated anamorphically or spherical, are they not? To retain the OAR you're either going to create a 2:1 anamorphic 16mm print or you're going to really reduce and matte it.

 

[Scott H]

Some additional 16mm projection info...

Standard regular 16mm projection frame: .373" x .272"

Anamorphic regular 16mm projection frame: .373" x .272"

Super16 projection frame: .468" x .282"

1.85:1 Super16 projection frame: .468" x .253"

Source: Scott E. Norwood/Film-Tech.com