New version of "Mad World" out this week? (1 Viewer)

[oscar_merkx]

it is almost like being in a history class about lost classic films and discovering what happened to it

keep going gentleman

 

[BruceKimmel]

Mr. Epstein and Mr. Crawford:

Excuse me, but I don't see ANY tone in my post, nor was any intended. It is you, I'm afraid, who are reading tone into it. I simply expressed that I thought it was strange that my post disappeared. It certainly showed up after I posted it (you know, I got that "thank you for posting" thing), and then it was strangely gone this morning, and that is why I mentioned it. Is that bad form here at HTF? To mention a post gone missing and ask about it? I wouldn't THINK that was bad form but then I'm always surprised about what others perceive is bad form. I would not want to do anything that was bad form because that would be bad form.

Jeff Krispow - thank you again for your informative post. I hope it isn't bad form to compliment you. I had the LD to Mad World, but I can't seem to find it - it's probably in a box somewhere (I mean a box other than the one it came in - you know, a general box which, I suppose, is different than a colonel box). I'm happy to show anyone my cut of Creature. It is amazingly different in just about every way. One of the most important differences is that their lame DJish computer voice replaced an Academy Award-winner in my version - our computer voice was Broderick Crawford in full-out abusive Highway Patrol mode.

 

[Patrick McCart]

Perhaps a joint HTF-MGM-Mad World fundraiser could be done. Each HTF member can donate an amount of money and get their name in a name scroll at the end of the restored film (during the exit music).

 

[Josh Steinberg]

OK, I hate to admit this, but...

I've never seen "Mad World." I've seen other movies so I'm not a total loser, but I've never seen this one and I know I should. That said... considering the current state of the film, what should I do? I don't have an LD player, nor do I know anyone who does, nor can I afford one - so the LD version is out. So is it worth seeing the DVD as is, or would it be better to just avoid seeing the film altogether because of the condition it's in on DVD?

If someone wants to buy me a laserdisc player and the movie, I won't stop them....

 

[Robert Harris]

Jeff...

I'm currently working in LA and don't have my records with me beyond a working continuity for the Roadshow.

I'm quite certain however, that the 210 minute cut of Mad World was not the Premiere, but rather an earlier preview cut of the film.

Also, I don't recall any Intermission music beyond the brief "step into the lobby" at the tail of reel 5C, which lasts under a minute.

RAH

 

[Jeff Krispow]

Robert,

I just read your post, and re-read mine, and realized I made a mistake in retyping some of my notes over to the forum posting.

I skipped a line in my notes, which resulted in my managing to "combine" the Reel 5C Intermission lead-in with the Entr'Acte, and called the Exit Music the Entr'Acte. *Sigh* What it should have read was:

"…my notes show that the original Roadshow engagement runs 195m for the actual film segments. However, if you add in all the other "parts" — the Overture (2:23), Intermission lead-in (0:18), "Radio Calls" (~6:30), Entr'Acte (3:40) and Exit Music (2:13) the total length of the IAMMMMW Roadshow experience ran about 210m."

I've corrected my previous posting.

It's seems that the big issue with all the running time quoted by various sources is whether or not it includes the Overture, Intermission, "Road Calls," Entr'Acte and Exit Music in the total timing. Usually, the given running time is for the 'film" portion only, and excludes the music bits + Road Calls. This is why I separated out my listings the way I did — giving a time for the actual "film" portion, and another "film + music" timing. This way we're always clear about what is included in each quoted timing/version (hopefully).

It was always my understanding that the Roadshow version clocked in at ~195m for the filmed portion only, (no extra music bits or "Road Calls" segment). If one adds the length of the music bits + the Road Calls segment to the 195m filmed portion, the total length of the entire screening comes out to ~210m.

And this timing makes sense, especially since I can compare it to the modified 70mm general engagement* version shown at the Dome. The Dome print runs 162m, but that's for the "film" portion only. However, the total "showtime" was 178m, once the Overture, Intermission lead-in, Road Calls, Entr'Acte and Exit music are included — I timed this out myself at the showing. (* Note: The actual 70mm general engagement version didn't include the Road Calls portion, but the Dome print did. Just an FYI to those following along…)

It's always been stated that ~30m of footage was cut from the Roadshow version to create the 162m 70mm general engagement version. Therefore 162m + 30m = ~192m ("film" portion only). However, in an interview Ron previously conducted, you stated that the Roadshow version ran 195m — therefore that means ~32-33m were actually cut.

Now, while the "film" portion runs 162m, the total "showtime" of the 70mm general engagement version was 178m ("film" + music + Road Calls). Therefore, 178m + 33m of cut footage = ~211m.

That's how I came up with that "total" running time. I definitely wasn't talking about any earlier 210m Preview Version (which would have apparently had a "total showtime length" closer to 225m once the music + Road Calls were added onto the timing). But if the 195m Roadshow Version actually includes all the music bits + Road Calls in the total run time, I'd be most interested to know that (because it would also mean that only ~17m of footage was cut, rather than ~33m).

Anyway, Robert, I hope that made sense to you where I got the numbers from.

Best…

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Bruce, a re-transfer for Nudie Musical would be great; I hope that you can manage it. What was otherwise a first-rate disc was brought down a little by the dodgy source elements, and it sounds like you can now make it into a top-rated disc all the way around. Good luck with that!

Oh, and to get on topic, MGM, get off your dead ass and restore IAMMMMW.

 

[Robert Harris]

Having spoken with my trusty archival asst., we now have hard numbers which will place the Premiere Roadshow in perspective.

The total length of picture footage on the Premiere was 15,783 feet plus 9 frames, which equals 175.4 minutes.

The total length of music and radio calls was 1,327 feet plus 8 frames, which equals 14.75 minutes.

The total length of picture and music/radio calls was 190.12 minutes.

Hope this is helpful.

RAH

 

[BruceKimmel]

Now, that is very very helpful. If one does the math, there is only approximately thirteen minutes of missing footage, which jibes a lot more with my memory than thirty minutes does.

Of course, I'm also confused about what on earth a "general" release 70mm version is - my impression was/is that all the 70mm showings would have been roadshow, as they didn't really show 70 at nabes back then. Clarify, if you can, please.

Thank you for the good info, both RAH and Jeff.

 

[Peter Kline]

The laser had some badly color-timed and "rectified" (stretched at the sides for projection on the deeply curved Cinerma screens) inserts of various scenes added to the non-rectified print used. I don't think in any instance those 30 or 60 seconds of additional footage made those particular scenes any better - just longer and in some instances going on after the punchline. Again, I read many years ago that Kramer was not happy with the LD presentation. Sorry I cannot remember where or when (with apologies to Rodgers & Hart). With all the discussion of this film I am surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that the film is often times heavy-handed and uneven. Kramer was not a comedy director by any stretch of the imagination. The film tends to plod along at times, pick up speed and then revert to long scenes going nowhere. My opinion of course.

 

[Douglas R]

I just want to say that this thread has been absolutely fascinating. Where else but Home Theater Forum can you read such informed discussion from experts about what is one of my most fondly remembered films. Thanks guys!

 

[george kaplan]

Well Peter, it's all a matter of opinion. I find the ld cut vastly superior to the dvd cut, as do many others. Perhaps Kramer didn't like the ld cut for some reason, but he appears to have had something to do with it. From the back cover, I quote:

"MGM/UA Home Video wishes to express its thanks to Stanley Kramer and Joshua Berman for their contributions which made this special presentation possible."

 

[Peter Kline]

Yes George, he was obviously involved with his narration and on screen intoduction. Nevertheless, if you like the extended scenes so be it. I don't in this case. The rhythm is all wrong in my opinion. Once the punch line comes, move on. I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

The laserdisc edition of Its A Mad Mad Mad
Mad World is amongst the most treasured
items in my life.

I have to tell you, I first saw IAMMMMW when
I was a young boy in the early 70s. They had
it playing at the local theater's Saturday
"kiddie matinee." There was just so much
zany fun going on that screen, and at that age,
I thought it was the coolest movie I had ever
seen.



In 1991, I siezed the opportunity to buy the
newly released laserdisc boxed set of IAMMMW,
which restored sequences missing from the film
since its 1963 premiere. At the age of 28, as I
sat watching this newly reconstructed version,
I felt like a little kid all over again.

Authorized by Kramer or not, this was certainly
a bold and very successful attempt to take every
little piece of outtake and missing elements and
present a classic in an entirely new perspective.

There was an overture, intermission and exit music.
It was an absolute treat to watch bits and pieces
of extended sequences that were being seen for the
very first time by the public since the
film's premiere. It's like revisiting a bunch of
old friends and discovering new things about them.

I don't care that the laserdisc Special Edition
isn't the "exact" Roadshow version. I understand
that it contains outtakes never intended to be in
the film. So what? This was an opportunity for
fans to see these clips (authorized or not) for
the very first time. Sure, there were ratio
problems with the newly added material, but it
sort of helped us keep track of where the new
footage was being inserted.



That laserdisc boxed set was released at a time
when it seems MGM really cared about getting
something special out to the fanbase of one of
its most "treasured" titles.

For anyone that has never had the opportunity
to see this amazing laserdisc (with 20 extra
minutes of missing footage), you have no
understanding of why we are putting so much
pressure on MGM to do the needed restoration.

Anyone that still owns that very limited Special
Edition set, probably finds it very difficult to
watch the theatrical version now available on DVD.

To cap it all off, Robert Harris has the original
intermission "road calls." These were never
located at the time of the 1991 laserdisc pressing.
There is also additional material that has
been found since then. Here is a link to an article
I wrote about this film almost two years ago....

[url=http://www.hometheaterforum.com/madworld/mad2.gif] [/url]

(click on the above picture link)

MGM knows what we would like them to do here.

If you put the restoration into the hands of
Robert Harris, he's going to do wonders to this
film. He's one of the biggest fans of this film
and he certainly wants to restore it as close
to the original roadshow version as he can.

In addition, he wants to include the "radio calls"
as well as some other cool things that I am not
sure I am at liberty to talk about.

There is no other person more qualified to work
on this film and restore it back to its original
roadshow glory than Robert Harris.

I just pray that MGM backs such a restoration
before the missing elements can no longer be saved.

 

[Randy A Salas]

That laserdisc boxed set was released at a time
when it seems MGM really cared about getting
something special out to the fanbase of one of
its most "treasured" titles.

That's when George Feltenstein was there. (He's now at Warner Home Video.)

I still love George's quote from a USA Today article that came out when the laserdisc Ron mentions came out: "The film has gotten a bum rap the last few years. So much has been missing that on TV they could have just called it It's a Mad World."

 

[BruceKimmel]

The point is, IF Robert Harris were to do the restoration (and I'm sure he'd do a fine job of it), I am quite certain he would not be restoring bits that were outtakes and were never meant to be in the film (as in the laserdisc). Sure, it was fun to see all those extra bits (I bought the laser the day it came out), but bits that weren't in the original roadshow cut should be included as extras, otherwise Mr. Kramer's film is being changed without his permission and/or knowledge (obviously, since he's no longer with us). My two, anyway.

 

[Jeff Krispow]

Robert, many thanks for filling in the blanks for the 70mm Roadshow Premiere… and the exact footrame breakdown was more than I would ever have hoped for. Thank you so very much — I truly appreciate this!!!

FYI: I have corrected my posting near the top of this page, replacing Mr. Harris' information for the 70mm Roadshow Premiere engagement.

For at least 20 years, I've been repeatedly "told" that approximately 30m was cut from the 70mm Roadshow Premiere to create the 70mm General Release version. This bit of info was also noted on the LD box set. Frankly, I had no reasons to doubt that it was correct, since the "30m" notation was always taken as gospel.

But as Bruce said, after doing the math based upon the latest information, we now see that only 12m-13m were actually cut, not "~30m":

_ _ _190m (original Roadshow)
_ _- 178m (Cinerama Dome 70mm)
_ ___12m (wanting desperately to be restored)


Ah, Randy… I remember George's quote in the paper… I got a big laugh out of that! I also remember from speaking with him at the time that he was extremely glad that the LD version was released. But I still bemoan the fact that Feltenstein didn't really have any direct input on it's production…

There's quite a lot of information relating to the LD production that most people are not aware of, even most of the folk here on the board — the LD almost… ALMOST… never got made. It was more a matter of pure luck that it survived the production phase and was released. The usual folks responsible for all those great MGM LDs (such as Feltenstein) were not involved here, since the Home Video division barely existed at that point.

During the time of the LD's production in late 1990-1991, the studio was in an extreme "state of flux." The studio was owned at the time by good ol' Ted Turner, and he had just sold it over to Italian financier Giancarlo Parretti (aka Pathe Communications). Circumstances revolving around the financing of this deal caused massive legal problems and chaos, and MGM shareholders sued Turner (it was eventually settled out of court). (As for Paretti, he received the money by never paid it back, and the studio suffered massive financial problems under his "reign." All fascinating public record should any readers wish to learn more…)

Also in 1990, a large sale of the property had just taken place — the famous MGM lot was sold to Sony. MGM proper was in the process of moving out of their former studio lot and into a large tower located on Santa Monica Blvd. in West Los Angeles.

Because of all this, most of the studio's resources were concentrated on the survival of MGM and moving into their new facility. Production budgets for films and especially home video were cut way down across the board, and quite a few productions were cancelled entirely.

The "home video" department had been mostly broken up, and its former members were either leaving for other jobs/studios or were moving to the new facilities with reassigned duties. But one individual at the studio, Rennie Johnson (he's listed on the LD) saw a golden opportunity and jumped in to take over the project (and department) when the others left. Thanks to the persistence of Josh Berman, Jim Kroeper, Paul Scrabo and others, the IAMMMMW LD managed to survive the cutbacks and went into production, although with a reduced budget.

The original intention WAS to reconstruct the original 70mm Roadshow Version as best possible at the time. Josh's trims were all 70mm, and they wanted to transfer all the film from the original 70mm materials. Also, as I mentioned in another post, Josh wanted to recreate the "Road Calls" segments using Stan Freberg (as it had not yet been relocated by Jim Kroeper). They also would need a way of transferring the 70mm trims (and footage) to video, but a special telecine would have to be custom built, which would cost quite a bit. (Luckily, their transfer house had another production that just came in that required the exact same thing, so the cost was eventually split between that production and MGM.)

But again, their budget was rather restricted, so certain plans Josh (and the others) had could not be implemented. The trims obviously had to be transferred (and converted over) from Josh's 70mm rectified source materials, but the remainder of the transfer was taken from a 35mm reduction print source (which was missing ~10% off the sides). Since the trims were in a rectified 70mm format, and the 35mm reduction print was missing ~10% off the sides, various tactics were used to get the pieces to match, otherwise there would be a very noticeable jump in the frame. Usually, artificial panning was employed in an attempt to match up the framing. If that couldn't be done, quick snippets of alternate takes or close-ups were added in instead to "cover their tracks."

MGM also had their own ideas for this reconstruction. They wanted as many bits as possible put back into the film, whether they were actually part of the Roadshow version or not. (Frankly, this might not have been a "proper" reconstruction, but as a fan, I was more than glad to see as much footage put back in as was humanly possible!) Also, they refused to budget the reconstruction of the "Road Calls" segment, deeming it "unnecessary." And there were other "MGM difficulties" that I'd prefer not to get into here — most are of a personal nature (relating to the experiences of Josh and/or the other individuals who wanted to "do the right thing" with the LD), or relating to a certain worthless "individual" who had his own agenda, one which did not necessarily represent the best course for the LD.

Thankfully, these two opposite forces somehow managed to balance themselves out, and out popped a fairly good laserdisc edition as a result. It wasn't as good as it was originally intended to be — but it was certainly far better than it almost was…

Anyway, that's the current end of this tale — from what I remember at the time, and with Josh Berman filling in a few of the other details. There's a bit more that I know, but it's not really proper for me to relay any of that info at this time. However, if there is any additional information that Josh wishes to relay in the future on the LD production, I will certainly pass it forward to the group.

Ron — It's already been mentioned in this group that maybe we could do something to help out in some way, such as some sort of "HTF Fundraiser." And this would definitely be an ideal time to do SOMETHING, especially considering that it's the 40th Anniversary of the film and it's back in the public's eye — both with the recent Cinerama Dome showing, and the upcoming one at the Paramount in Austin, TX. And if our members aren't the ones to try something, I can't think of anyone else who would even bother.

Maybe IAMMMMW could be the focus of an upcoming HTF chat, having the "known experts" talk about the film, the need for restoration, the previous LD reconstruction, the current "state of affairs," etc. And by "known experts," I mean try to get Robert Harris, Josh Berman, Jim Kroeper, Mark Evanier and whomever else could be gathered.

Alternatively, maybe this could be turned into some sort of live "IAMMMMW Restoration Event" at the Dome (or similar theatre), which would cover the same subjects, but with the added assistance of visual demonstrations (such as the missing footage, color timing, and especially deteriorating reels and footage!). We'd use the same "experts," but would also grab Karen Kramer and the surviving stars of the film, and have them talk about the need to preserve and restore the film before it's too late. Of course, the local news would be invited to attend, as well as the proper MGM "folks."

We need something to grab the attention of the "higher beings" at MGM while IAMMMMD is still in their minds, and convince them that funding this restoration would be a viable project in every respect. Just an idea…

Well, that's it for today — I really want to eat my dinner before it turns into a huge block of ice (which is unlikely since it's still in the upper 90s here in the San Fernando Valley in L.A. I hate heat!).

As usual, I hope this information proves useful, or at least interesting, to you all.

Regards!

 

[Robert Harris]

Approximately 21 minutes were excised.

Premiere picture only = 175 +

General release = 154.

RAH

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

OK, I hate to admit this, but...

I've never seen "Mad World." I've seen other movies so I'm not a total loser, but I've never seen this one and I know I should.

Don't worry. I haven't seen it either. I want to, and I am eager for MGM to restore it because it sounds like a great film (the fact that Mr Harris wants to restore the film is always an indicator of qulity for me), but I haven't seen it.

 

[JeremySt]

If a true Special Edition of this DVD does ever emerge, the text of this thread should be included as a special feature!

Ron, I can relate...My IAMMMMW LD is one of my most prized posessions.

...very cool, even if only as collector item, and not a definitive cut of the film.

This thread has been an invaluable source of information, especially that provided by Robert Harris and Jeff Krispow.

RUSSELL: Do you think you're hurt, real bad?
SMILER: Is he kiddin?