new standalone sales figures.... (1 Viewer)

[Dave Mack]

Hi guys, don't know how accurate this info is so if it's not, don't shoot the messenger and please stay on topic.
NPD group is a marketing research group that's been around since 1967.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article...ml?text=hd+dvd


"...High-def player sales even, says NPD Group
Tight supply of Toshiba HD DVD models could be a factor
By Susanne Ault 2/2/2007

FEB. 2 | Despite price differences, high-definition stand-alone Blu-ray and HD DVD players are neck-and-neck in sales, according to the NPD Group.

Between April and December, 48% of high-def stand-alones sold were Blu-ray and the remaining 52% were HD DVD. Blu-ray stand-alones, including models by Sony, Samsung, Philips and Pioneer, are priced at about $1,000 and up. In contrast, certain Toshiba HD DVD models can be found for about $500.

One possible contributing factor to the results is that retailers have noted tight Toshiba inventory relative to the flusher availability of stand-alone Blu-ray players.

Also, there are more Blu-ray manufacturers than HD DVD manufacturers releasing stand-alone players.

NPD’s data excludes sales of high-def gaming devices, the Blu-ray-compatible PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360’s HD DVD drive. NPD plans to update this information on a quarterly basis. "


Now once again, I don't know how accurate this is but I thought everyone here was saying that HDdvd standalones were outselling BD standalones by like 5-1...

Someone's info. is off...
and this doesn't even take the PS3 into account. If you did and this info. is correct... oof

Once again, this report could be completely off, if so take it easy....


d

 

[Phil Garcia]

Wow, that's insane.

I don't see how that could be off; NPD is a well known source obviously.

Wow.

 

[MarekM]

Dave thanx for info....

I am suprised that those numbers are so close hmm

Marek

 

[Dave Mack]

yep, caused quite a stir on AVS where previously people were saying it was a 5-1 difference in HDdvds favor. Now there are people yelling "conspiracy" and other nonsense and questioning NPD..
funny

 

[Phil Garcia]

Questioning NPD? Wow.

Still this is pretty amazing news...too bad it cant be posted in the software section where it'd get more attention.

 

[Dave H]

Very interesting stuff indeed. I too always heard HD DVD standalones were ahead 5-1.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Yeah, but next week the numbers will change again, and then the BD guys will say the numbers are irrelevant. But then a week later, the ball will swing back in BD's favor, and then all of the high fiving will return. And then...

 

[Shane Martin]

Dave,
NPD doesn't include certain retailers like Wally World so it's not 100% accurate.

 

[RAF]

Hmmm... People over at AVS yelling things and other nonsense and questioning veracity, etc...

What a surprise...



While the topic of this thread is extremely interesting let's hope that the people over here will keep discussing it in a sensible fashion as we try to get to the heart of the matter. Yelling and nonsense gets you nothing but temporary attention and almost certain confrontation. Courteous dialogue is a much more effective approach.

(This is not a warning regarding this particular thread, but just a general statement regarding the Internet and open forums. Always be aware of the source and the content. That's why I'm not surprised.)

 

[Ron-P]

Thanks for the infor Dave.

Typical of AVS.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I'm just casually following the HD DVD vs BD thing right now because I'm really waiting for a next generation universal machine. But really, I don't believe those numbers at all. HD DVD players have been available longer, and they are in general cheaper.

 

[Dave Mack]

yep, claims that this was "paid for by sony"
or "they must have counted the BD players twice..."

kinda funny

 

[Jerome Grate]

Interesting to say the least, I certainly would have thought differently especially with the price difference. I mean you can get an HD-DVD player for as low as 390.00 from Amazon, that's gotta mean something in regards to sale figures.

 

[Chris S]

Very interesting indeed...

I wonder, and this is pure speculation on my part, if the HD-DVD players are selling through at a higher rate but given there are more BD models on the market it is difficult for them to compete even with a $500 price difference. For example a retailer has 30 HD-DVD units and 60 BD units. They may sell 29 BD players and all 30 HD-DVD, thus requiring more inventory which it appears they're not able to acquire. Then customer #60 walks through the door and what does the sales person have to offer... BD. It will be interesting to see how/if these numbers change later in the year when the new Chinese models start showing up.

 

[Robert_Zohn]

HTF is definitely a gentlemen’s forum. Personally, I enjoy a calm, intellectual debate. Congratulations to all members, owners and mods for this great information and excellent forum.

However, I do also question the accuracy of the report. My company sells both formats and we try to sell as much of each product as possible and we have sold far more HD DVD players than BD players.

Now I do admit I am personally and professionally in favor of the HD DVD format and I know that and my close relationship I enjoy with Toshiba effect my sales towards HD DVD, but the actual numbers are so far apart in favor of HD DVD I just can't agree with the report.

Further, my company is very well known as a very large retailer of BD and HD DVD players, however, no one poled my company for sales figures. In fact, I have been interviewed and quoted by Susan and VB many times

Who knows. Anyway one thing we all likely all agree on is that both formats are outstanding and add tremendous value to our HD enjoyment.

-Robert

 

[Jerome Grate]

Everyone has a bias to something, but truth is truth, especially coming from someone behind the scenes in regards to sales. I can't question the verasity of the article because I'm not in the business but for me common sense tells me that the price alone would tell the tale. I hope I'm not stepping out of bounds here but, I question the truth about the average consumers knowledge of which studio is supporting which format. I guess you have to learn when you purchase one of these machines but do they really know?

 

[Brian Sheffield]

Before buying an expensive playback machine, even the average consumer will take a look at what discs are available on the format.

I don't think its a stretch at all that newcomers to what is clearly at this point a niche market would be swayed by studio support.

Even if one assumes that "Joe six-pack" is a total rube, the profit margins for retailers is much higher on blu-ray. They are motivated to puff up blu-ray features like the number of studio's supporting the format.

NPD is the best source for consumer electronics sales information in North America. It's hard dispute their findings.

 

[Peter Overduin]

I continue to 'pole' (sry Robert..made my day hehe my local Future Shops when I go in to buy DVDs and sales arent even close between the several, including one of the biggest in the lower mainland of BC, and also as evidenced by a 2 for 1 sale of HD/BD disks recently.

ALL say unequivocally that HD vastly outsells BD becuase a) price and b) familiarity. Further...at least in this area of the world, ALL say as well that there was a very small spike in BD disk sales when PS3 came out.

The biggest loser continues to be the consumer; though I will concede that a BD player is in my future because of studio support for the format. Ironically, Universal's stupidity doesn't do HD any favors.

I feel like I'm the one getting "poled" here!

 

[ppltd]

How do you figure? Retail price and profit margin do not go hand in hand. I personally do not know what the 'margin' is, but I would be willing to bet the the margin of profit for a retailer on a Pioneer Elite product is considerably lower than the margin on a Samsung or Toshiba.

Whether or not these margins translate into higher net revenue per sale is another matter.

 

[Carlo_M]

Why would you say the Elite margin is less?

I don't have Pioneer prices, but I did know Sony and Sony ES prices way back in the late 90s and early 2000s. The ES line gave way more profit (when sold as MSRP) than the mass market stuff. By far.

These are estimates, but in the old days, an ES receiver that MSRP'd for $1000 cost the dealer about $600-$650. The $300 mass market receiver cost them $190-$200.

This dealer [who will remain nameless to protect the innocent] carried many other brands (Pioneer, Toshiba, Panasonic, NAD etc.) and he pretty much indicated in our many conversations (we are friends) that the margin is pretty much the same for most product lines.

It wasn't just from the dealer's mouth either. I saw the dealer cost lists because he showed them to me as I decided what to buy, so that I could get an idea of my costs (I got employee pricing which was dealer + 10%).

I wasn't interested in Pioneer so I didn't really look at their sheets, but I certainly looked at Panasonic, Sony and NAD. The trend is the higher cost the dealer about 60-67% of the MSRP, so the margin (as calculated by sheer number of dollars, not as a percentage) will be higher for higher cost items. Whereas the markup percentage may be the same for a $300 receiver, but the dollar count is less.