MS threatening to pull X-Box from Australia (1 Viewer)

[Michael St. Clair]

So in other words, so long as the X-Box is not region-free, the law isn't asinine. So shouldn't we put off this discussion until MS actually releases a region-free X-Box (har de har har)?

The PORTION of the law that asserts that consumers HAVE to be able to make copys of commercial software discs is asinine. If I made game consoles and software, I wouldn't give a flip about the region portion while this other idiotic provision was hanging over my head.

This law protects piracy.

 

[nolesrule]

But when you do something stupid, like protect piracy, and guarantee free ice cream and tires, eventually you have no more game publishers, and no more ice cream shops, and no new cars.

The law doesn't protect piracy, just technology. If there is a piracy problem, deal with it in court, as there are already applicable laws to deal with piracy.

Like in the U.S., where the DMCA isn't necessary. If something is already illegal under copywrite law, there is no need for draconian measures that just make it "more illegal".

 

[Jean-Michel]

This law protects piracy.

If piracy were protected I don't think it would be called "piracy."

 

[BrianB]

What Joe said. By your reckoning & hyperbole, Michael, we should go banning knives etc - technology that can be used for violence, ban it etc. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that - same with modchips. I'd *love* it if there was an easy cheap straightforward way for regionfree gaming - I have multiregion solutions for my DC, PSX, NES & Saturn. I spent a LOT of money on importing games from other regions. Cracking down on importing only pisses off your hardcore market - the gamers that spend a LOT of money on games, a lot of money on imports.

That's something Sony have yet to learn either - they spent a lot of time & effort coming up with modchip detection schemes on the PSX so that certain legitimately bought games wouldn't work on modded Playstations. Did that stop those games getting pirated? Did that stop people modding their consoles? Nope - if anything, it caused MORE piracy. People had to resort to copying the games, patching them, and playing those copies instead of the game... I play NTSC patched backups of my BOUGHT UK games to get around the PAL/NTSC problem for example. Sony won themselves no favours with their anti-modchip software.

BTW, have you ever lived in a PAL gaming region, Michael?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

In our society (including Australia), we DO have things that are illegal (or regulated) to sell or possess because their intended purpose is also illegal.

Quote:

Sigh.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

LOS ANGELES, Oct 22 (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp. has no intention of withdrawing its Xbox video game console from Australia despite reports it was considering such a move in a dispute over a copyright law, the company said on Tuesday.

Australian newspaper The Age reported last Friday that Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer, angry over a court ruling that allowed an individual there to sell after-market chips that modify game consoles, had said the company would have to reconsider selling its console there.

A company spokeswoman told Reuters Ballmer's remarks were not specifically related to the Xbox, which she said Microsoft was committed to selling in Australia.

After-market "mod" chips allow gamers to copy games and run games intended for other consoles on the Xbox as well as circumventing other built-in security features.

I have to admit I see some humor in the 'big 3' managing to shut down mod sales at Lik-Sang, and now the next 'Lik-Sang' will likely be in Australia.

 

[Jean-Michel]

I'm not talking about 2 and 3. And I'm not going to support the open marketing of devices to enable piracy just because I'm not happy about the situation with 2 and 3.

Call me crazy, but did I miss something here?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Yes, Sega and Nintendo have always been smart where Sony/MS is dumb

Region coding can be fixed with a simple switch and some wire, a soldering iron and 20 minutes. Wanna break their copy protection? You're talking major overhaul.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Jean-Michel,
I have to buy a 'piracy chip' just to play out-of-region games.
I don't want a 'piracy chip'. I just want no region restrictions. It ticks me off that I have to buy a piracy chip to do that.
I am not happy with the console makers (Sony and Microsoft in particular).
None of this changes the fact that I don't agree with the portion of the Australian law that says that everybody has to be able to buy a way to play 'backups' (i.e. pirated games). That is all! Nothing else! Just that!
I agree with Jeff. I like the Saturn/Dreamcast/Gamecube methodology. Make breaking region easy, make breaking protection hard. If Sony had done that with PSX/PS2, they would probably have less piracy on their hands.

 

[Jean-Michel]

None of this changes the fact that I don't agree with the portion of the Australian law that says that everybody has to be able to buy a way to play 'backups' (i.e. pirated games). That is all! Nothing else! Just that!

But you've also said you believe mod chips (and anything else that enables the use of backup/pirate games, including Action Replays and Gamesharks) should be illegal (or at the very least, not "openly marketed"), on the grounds that their use as a region-killing tool was rendered irrelevant by their use as piracy-enabling tools. That was what I got out of your little 1-2-3 list, anyway. I was merely pointing out the incongruity of saying such a thing while at the same time defending your own use of such devices on the grounds that you needed them to play imports.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

on the grounds that their use as a region-killing tool was rendered irrelevant by their use as piracy-enabling tools

Actually, when the DMCA came out, non-piracy mod chips for PSX were made

The Sony copy protection system was basically that the disc had encoded on it 4 letters in a specific sector. SCEJ, SCEA or SCEE (Japan, America, Europe). Mod chips worked by just sending the code for the region the console was from and bypassing the disc bottleneck. the anti-piracy chips worked by ONLY sending the 4th character, so a legit disc still had to provide the other 3, and a pirated copy could not.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I was merely pointing out the incongruity of saying such a thing while at the same time defending your own use of such devices on the grounds that you needed them to play imports.

I guess you are calling me a hypocrite. I've been called worse.
I'll happily buy a non-piracy region mod if I can get one.
And yes, I think piracy chips should be illegal.
I'll bet it is possible to make a mod for the PS2 and XBox that only breaks regions but does not allow piracy.
And yes, if I can't get a non-piracy region mod, I'll buy a piracy region mod. But I won't be happy about it.
Personally, I don't see this as inconsistent. Some people who are for gun control own guns. I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.
I give up. You guys 'win'. I'm done with this thread. I don't even know what the point is any more.
Jeff, if you hear of a non-piracy PS2 mod, please let me know where I can get one.

 

[BrianB]

Actually, when the DMCA came out, non-piracy mod chips for PSX were made

They existed before DMCA.

 

[Jeff_Standley]

Microsoft announces that it has no intention of withdrawing the Xbox from Australia, despite recent reports to the contrary.

According to a Reuters report, Microsoft has today stated that it has no intention of withdrawing the Xbox from Australia because of laws concerning mod chips there. Earlier this week, we reported on a story in an Australian newspaper that cited comments made by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer that implied that the company might consider removing the Xbox from the Australian market if the country's legal system couldn't provide adequate protection from hackers and mod-chip users.
According to a spokeswoman for Microsoft, Ballmer's remarks were not specifically related to the Xbox, and the company is still committed to selling its game console in Australia, where it retails for 399 Australian dollars, or around $220.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Jeff,

I reported that in the 26th post of this thread.

 

[Jean-Michel]

I guess you are calling me a hypocrite. I've been called worse.

Not so much calling you a "hypocrite," just pointing out that you yourself have pretty much admitted an absolutist stance on this issue is futile and can't really be justified given the current situation.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Jeff, if you hear of a non-piracy PS2 mod, please let me know where I can get one.

Ain't happening. The new protection system is all kinds of encrypted, nothing short of a total bypass works really

 

[Jeff_Standley]

Looked but not hard enough. Thanks.

 

[DaveGTP]

What about 10 years from now? Pirates will always find a way to operate. However, you need to be able to make backups. I try to be very careful with my discs, but accidents and occasional little things happen. CD's have done this to me quite frequently. I hate paying twice for the same CD. The idea of paying $50 again for a game that was hard enough to come up with the money the first time makes me angry. I paid for the game, not for the CD or DVD the game is stamped on. Until they make indestructable games, we should have the right to back them up. Imagine having to replace a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga (not that I can afford one) for $100!! It was made years ago... a replacement policy would be just fine for me, if they promised to do it for a long enough period....

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Dave, as has been said before, most companies will exchange the disc for under $10. If you screw it up, sorry to be blunt but it's YOUR PROBLEM, not theirs. If you go to sega-parts.com they have equipment and games for everything back to the Master System