More 950 clones on the way?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Legairre, Feb 11, 2002.

  1. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    It looks like the Sherbourn pre/pro will be a 950 clone/knock off just like AT's. This is ridiculous. How many more overpriced clones are coming. Check out the link below.
    http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2.../page_02.shtml
    On Friday I sent Sherbourn an email for specs on their new pre/pro. Ron wrote me back with some specs and a $2000 price this morning. Now that I found this article I just sent him an email asking him if his new pre/pro is their own design or Eastech's based on Outlaw's pre/pro. I think we all know the answer, but I want to actually hear a manufacturer admit it.
     
  2. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    The last paragraph on that web site says it all: OEM solution is the economical solution.
     
  3. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    That's unbelievable. Has anyone heard of speaker manufacturers doing this? Imagine if 6 different companies had the exact same speaker? Same drivers, crossovers, cabinetry, but each one had a different colored grill[​IMG]
    Suddenly any derivation of the Outlaw looks tainted IMO. I know this debate should be centered around performance aspects of the units, but if I owned something I know was being cloned by half a dozen other manufacturers from price points as low as $900 to as high as $2000 for the same unit, It somehow cheapens the process, no?
    Am I weird for having this line of thinking?
     
  4. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    I just heard back from Ron at Sherbourn. He said their unit is made by Eastech. He said a few other things about the unit and development. He was completely honest about their pre/pro. No BS in any way. I have to give him credit for his honesty.
     
  5. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    Maybe its gonna be like in that movie, Demolition Man, where Taco Bell {Outlaw} takes over all of the other fast food chains [procesor market} turning them in to Taco Bells[​IMG]
     
  6. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    Evan,

    I agree with you. How many clones will their be? If speakers were done this way I'd be pissed. What is this. One manufacturer has a good design and everyone jumps on the band wagon and says, hey mine is worth more because I say so and want more profit. One clone is one thing, but two, three or four? This is crazy. Yeah, let's just keep uping the price too. on the other hand this could drive down the price of the clones a lot once word gets out. You could after a few months see a $2000 Sherbourn pre/pro going for $1200.

    John your right. We'll have lot's of pre/pros like Taco Bell. Some will just cost a whole lot more.
     
  7. Tony Lai

    Tony Lai Stunt Coordinator

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    Legairre, look at this:

    "And these are not Eastech's only clients-in the coming months, look for this same pre-pro to appear bearing customized faceplates from a half-dozen specialty audio manufacturers."

    Six clones would make for some competition I guess. And you always have the Rotel to fall back on.

    T.
     
  8. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    Tony,

    I think you forgot the link. The Rotel has always been my first choice because I have the 1095 amp and I'm hoping they will make a good match for eachother. If it sounds good then it will probably be my next pre/pro. I'm also considering the Anthem AVM20, but it' s a lot more money. The AVM would have to sound a lot better than the Rotel to justify the price. But the AVM does have the features that would keep me from upgrading for a long time. I keep flip flopping on these two.
     
  9. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    Everybody has their anal retentive qualities when it comes to their gear in this hobby. Some care about the looks of the pieces more than others and will pay more for the priviledge. My thought is that if I'm buying a piece of gear, I want that piece to have some unique qualities. Like "I bought the Rotel because it has feature A that nobody else has" I want to feel that if I get a Denon, that Denon is unique and different from those by Onkyo, HK and the like. I would feel weird if I got a unit that I knew was being rebranded by half a dozen other companies. Imagine inviting your friend over to hear your system and you said "Boy I just love my AT pre/pro...sounds great" and your buddy said "Boy, that thing looks just like my pre from Company XYX. In fact, the feature set is the same, sounds the same, looks the same." I would feel cheated. I know Outlaw has the proprietary design here, but if I got one of the clones and had a question to ask, would AT or Sherbourn or whatever be able to answer the question immediately or would they have to consult Eastech and get back to me. I realize this is ticky tack but it almost cheapens the product (or maybe it's flattering to Outlaw depending on how you look at it). I guess I look at it in the former light, not the latter.
     
  10. GordonL

    GordonL Supporting Actor

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    This is nothing unusual. When DVD players first came out, Denon, Yamaha, and a few others were using Toshiba and Panasonic innards. As the article pointed out, it's the easiest way for companies with lower budgets and/or who are late getting into the market to get in into market quickly. I don't know why you all are thinking all the clones will be exactly the same - the higher priced clones could very well be spec'd with higher quality parts. Can it make a difference in terms of sound quality? Maybe, maybe not. But, higher quality parts have tighter tolerances and have much higher MTBF rates. They're also more expensive, hence the price differentials.
     
  11. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    According to Sherbourn. Eastech allows "subtle" changes to make them compatible with each companies product line. To me that means making the faceplate match a companies seperate amp or products.
     
  12. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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    Another way of looking at it is that if several manufacturers are going to release clones costing anywhere from $500-1000 more than the 950, that would seem to validate the idea that the 950 offers an awful lot of bang for the buck.
     
  13. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    It also shows how pre/pro manufactures have been scewing us with their over inflated prices for a long time. The same unit cost $900 from company and $2000 from another. I'm all for making a profit, but let not get crazy. $1100 is more than twice as much.
     
  14. Serge Breton

    Serge Breton Supporting Actor

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    I look at all this in a positive manner. Outlaw, AT and Sherbourn are all well respected companies with excellent product lines. For all 3 manufacturers to put their name on the same product just strengthens the fact that this prepro is a quality piece.

    I now understand why these guys are able to keep the price low. The B&K reference 30 is the only quality processors at the under 3k price point that i am aware of. When several manufacturers OEM a product this is the best way to keep costs as low as possible. I would consider the Sherbourn (Outlaw 950) a bargain at $2000 since there is nothing else to date in this price range. This would obviously make the 950 the bargain of the century!

    This processor has to good or we would not have 3 competing manufacturers(so far) putting their names on the front panel! To me, it's that simple.
     
  15. Sean M

    Sean M Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeff, absolutely. Plus, one has to consider the target market of each of the clone pre/pro's being released. AT will defintely be sold via brick and mortar and the article said that Sherbourn's primary vendors are custom installers. Both of these avenues require higher profit margin for the dealer and have a higher percentage of customers that know nothing about the products they are buying, and hence will not know that they are buying a rebadged Outlaw product.

    The AT and Sherbourn will probably be sold at a discount online for the savvy consumer, or you could always buy the Outlaw. Frankly, the folks that know about and would buy the Outlaw are not the target consumer of these, or any other probably, clones. This goes on all the time in other areas of consumer electronics, why not pre/pro's?
     
  16. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    SeanM: you hit the nail on the head! The Retail pricing of the AT and Sherbourn allow for middleman profit. It would be just like Tweeter selling their new line of Tweeter subwoofers made by SVS. SVS would probably still make almost the same bucks per sub, yet Tweeter would have to almost double the price to consumers to make enough money at the store and corporate level.
     
  17. Will

    Will Guest

     
  18. Will

    Will Guest

    I agree with you. But don't know why that is. Don't the big manufacturers remember that the Sony TA-E9000ES put the pre/pro world on its ear when it first came out? It was *the* sub $2K pre/pro in its day, just a few years ago.
     
  19. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    3-4 years ago, there were several other good sub $2k prepros: Marantz AV9000, Acurus Act3, HK Sig 2.0, Nakamichi CA1, Golden Theater GTX1. But both Sony and Marantz have yet to update their prepros in over 3 years. And HK and Nakamichi got out of the separates market. Something must be up (final profit margins lower for budget prepros?). Golden Theater and Acurus went belly up. At least Sherwood will release a new ~ $1500 within 12 months or so (I think Jeff Hipps just said in another thread that the current Sherwood receiver is almost as clean in analog and better digitally than the 9080 prepro?).
     
  20. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Folk, this has been happening for a long long time in all areas of electronics. It's nothing new and definitely nothing to get riled up about.
     

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