"mechanical complexity" of DLP

Discussion in 'Displays' started by kurtZoom, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. kurtZoom

    kurtZoom Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm trying to "de bunk" what a salesman told me. He said he preferred the LCD RP TVs over DLPs because the DLPs have more moving parts that could lead to problems. He said the spinning color wheels are "mechanically complex". This seemed like a used car salesman telling me he wouldn't get a car with power windows for the same reason.

    I didn't see rainbows on the DLP sets I looked at. How obvious are they if you do? Do you need to squint and hold one foot up in the air while leaning to the left...or is it more obvious than that?

    I was leaning toward the Sony mainly because of the 25 year old 19" set I have that won't die. But I'm open minded and when investing this much want to make the right decision.
     
  2. Alf S

    Alf S Cinematographer

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    My parents got the Mitsubishi 52725 and I don't notice any rainbows while watching various programs (cable and DVD). The picture quality is amazing.

    Some folks may be more eager to see them than other "common folk" so to speak.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

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    Do you need to squint and hold one foot up in the air while leaning to the left...or is it more obvious than that?
    It’s harder to check in showroom conditions to see if you are sensitive, because of the difficulty of 'letting go' concentrating intently, on the display and its PQ. For those who experince it, incidents happens more when your eyes are relaxed, viewing under normal condition. (at home)

    To better determine if you will have a problem with DLP after bringing it home. On the showroom floor focus on staring at the center of the screen, but then try to begin to concentrate on what are on the edges of the screen that you see in your peripheral vision. Then focus on the far left and far right edges trying to register your peripheral, which while looking at the edges on one side of your body will place your peripheral range more at the center of this screen.

    I understand that paying attention to the # of color segments in the wheel and its speed (RPM) which should be posted in specs can give you an indicator. Manuf. have worked on reducing the percent of viewers who might be affected by the issue by:
    “either speed up the revolution frequency or increase the number of color segments in the wheel, or both. IOW, two 6-segment DLPs that spin the wheel at the same rate are likely to have similar tendencies towards RBE for a given viewer. An 8-segment vs. a 6-segment (at the same frequency) will tend to have a bit less, and so on. This can be used as a means of comparison without direct viewing. For instance, if they are visible to you on one brand that has a similar colorwheel arrangement to another brand, they will probably be just as noticeable on that one as well"
     
  4. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    It is not uncommon to see rainbows especially in a darkened room.

    Some people see them and can't tolerate it, some see them and don't mind, some don't see them. No one knows what percentage of people can see them.

    The salesman is correct that it adds mechanical complexity, but I don't think that would stop me. Clay faces, rainbows and headaches, they would deter me more.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    I'm a rainbow see'r... I do lean towards LCD RPTV myself.

    I think the sales man may have been giving you an honest opinion. Right or wrong, it was probably his opinion.
     
  6. Pat Frank

    Pat Frank Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a 4805, with the 4x color wheel, and I can occassionally see RBE if I try really hard. Mainly it happens when there is a washed-out area (pure white) on the screen. If I dart my eyes back and forth quickly I can catch it. My wife can't see it at all.

    I played around with a Dell 2200MP projector back before I bought the Infocus, and the RBE was *extremely* pronounced with that unit -- it was constantly cropping up. So I think the 4x wheel makes a huge difference.
     
  7. Travis_R

    Travis_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I prefer DLP for projectors because in my Opinion they last longer, however I think in the TV's the LCD panels have better cooling than LCD Projectors, click on the link below to get a better Idea on how DLP works, it does sound very complex but I have heard no one complain about any problems with their DLP's with the exception of a dead pixel once in a great while, but have the same odds of getting a dead pixel with LCD as well
     
  8. Jeff shark

    Jeff shark Extra

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    My g/f can see the rainbow....I cannot.....
    the DLP's definately do look nice, but I think the LCDRP can look equally nice, & no chance of rainbows [​IMG]
     
  9. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Palm towards the TV, fingers spread, rapidly wave your hand back and forth in from in front of your eyes. That is usually effective in breaking up the color integration and demonstrating the rainbow effect. But it's not a typical-use assessment; just a way to see the pretty colors.
     
  10. kurtZoom

    kurtZoom Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks folks
    great info. I didn't want to rule out the DLP and will now have a tool to more critically evaluate them in the store and possibly at home.
     
  11. Tyson Wetzel

    Tyson Wetzel Stunt Coordinator

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    The only moving part is a small plastic color wheel spinning on a bearing (air bearing in LG DLP's with 100,000 hour rating). Not very complex if you ask me.
     
  12. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Tyson: LG is junk.

    LCD is the way to go. Compare the picture levels. DLPs are always run WAY hot (90+ on contrast, etc). SDTV looks even worse. Lower pixels and color accuracy as well.
     
  13. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Kurt:

    I have the Mits 62725 DLP and love it. The main selling point for me was the way that SDTV looked on it compared to other DLP sets, LCOS RPTVs and LCD RPTVs. They all look great with a DVD or HDTV signal but over the air is another thing.

    Since we spend the majority of the time watching regular TV it was important to me that the picture looked great with regular TV viewing.

    Go to your local Ultimate Electronics out there by you. They will have various LCD, LCOS and DLP sets up and running. They are more than happy to play an SDTV signal and DVD for you.

    As far as rainbow artifacts with the DLP RPTVs I haven't seen any. I was bothered by them with a FPTV set up but haven't seen a one with my Mits.

    Whatever you do. Get the extended warranty. The one that I got covers the cost of replacing the bulb as often as needed over the next 5 years. Ask them what their warranty covers. If it doesn't cover replacing the bulb I wouldn't get it. Also, ask them what their return policy is. That is if you get it home and it looks like crap or you see rainbows with a DLP set ask what you can do in that case. Many stores let you return it no questions asked. I know that is the deal I got with UE.

    The bottom line. Let your eyes decide. You are going to have to live with it for the near future and you don't want to second guess yourself after you get it home. If it looks good to you the first couple of days you have it in your home the probability is that is will remain so over time.

    Parker
     
  14. kurtZoom

    kurtZoom Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Parker. I will check out Ultimate. They seem to have a decent selection and some of the sales folks seem like they have been trained or are at least interested enough in the goods to figure out the tech stuff.
    Dave - I will try the hand waving technique.
    "letting go" is kind of difficult when you are all excited about looking at the TVs.
     
  15. Travis_R

    Travis_R Stunt Coordinator

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    WOW YOU COULDA FOOLED ME, Side By side I think the DLP TV's Look WAYYYYY better than the LCD's, and I still say they will last longer, But thats just my opinion, and for the price LG is not that bad
     
  16. John S

    John S Producer

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    DLP way better then LCD, both RPTVs? Hmmm, in the earliest models I tend to agree, but the latest gen of LCD RPTV's really have made some impressive improvements.
     
  17. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Set 'em both to 50% and get back to me.
     
  18. George_W_K

    George_W_K Screenwriter

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    Better yet, calibrate them both, then compare.:wink:
     
  19. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

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    As far as mechanical complexity goes LCD technology has no moving parts (except for the cooling fan) and has been around much longer than DLP. More moving parts means more chance of failure. Compare flash memory to a hard drive. All hard drives eventually fail. I've had enough of them fail to know. Moving parts and the potential of seeing rainbows (or anybody else who's watching it) was the deal breaker for me. Isn't DLP the only display technology with moving parts?
     
  20. Tyson Wetzel

    Tyson Wetzel Stunt Coordinator

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    The resolution is the same on most of the current fixed-pixel RPTV's. I agree that the color tends to be better on some LCD RPTV's, the VS810 Hitachi series in particular.
     

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