low end projectors versus high end projectors?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by RobertBy, Jan 19, 2003.

  1. RobertBy

    RobertBy Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    hello everyone,
    i am in the market for a home theater projector. i have a large room 24' x 27'.with a 22' vaulted ceiling.
    also i have beams at 12' high in which i can mount a pj
    from a variety of locations.light is no problem.now for
    my question.i want to spend around $5000 to $6000 on a pj.
    i have concidered the nec ht1000 and the sanyo plv70.things
    change so quickly.are there new pj's that have recently
    came out that are just as good or better in this price range? and are there any new pj's that are cheaper but are
    just as good in performance.i am leaning towards a dlp.any
    advice would be helpful.i want to get the best picture performance i can for this price range.thank you.
    robert
     
  2. Michael Mathius

    Michael Mathius Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    1
    Robert:
    with this type of budget you have a wide list of projectors available.
    Here are some LCD projectors to consider:
    10 Most Popular Projectors MSRP
    1 Panasonic PT-L300U $ 2,799
    2 Sony VPL-HS10 Cineza $ 2,995
    3 Sanyo PLV-Z1 $ 2,495
    4 InFocus X1 $ 1,999
    5 NEC HT1000 $ 5,495
    6 Sanyo PLV-70 $ 8,995
    7 NEC LT240 $ 3,495
    8 NEC LT260 $ 3,995
    9 Mitsubishi XD300U $ 6,995
    10 Sharp PG M20X $ 4,395
    All of these projectors can be found much cheaper than the MSRP.
    I paid $2500 for the Sony HS10 and I'm loving it.
    Here is some info on mine.
    Good Luck.
     
  3. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 1998
    Messages:
    8,332
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Neil Joseph
    One thing to consider is are you watching primarily widescreen material. This is a consideration if deciding on the NEC HT1000 (4x3 @ 1024x768 which yields a 16x9 resolution of 1024x576) vs something like the Sharp 9000 @ 1280x720 or the Sanyo PLV70 @ 1366x768.

    With the recent arrival of the Sharp 10000U, you may actually be able to find the Sharp 9000 at reasonable pricing if you are focused on DLP.
     
  4. Dave Milne

    Dave Milne Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2001
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    0
    For $5-6K you can get a good used CRT PJ and blow away all of the bulb projectors...
     
  5. RandyMathis

    RandyMathis Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Give this a try Sir! http://projectorcentral.com/ I am thinking about the Panasonic PT-L300U. It can be found for $1995.00. The recommended low power setting can make the bulb last for 5,000 hours, compared to 2,000 or less on the others. This, and screen burn may push me away from choosing a rptv and toward a fptv. Shop around for a screen. The price ranges are huge.
     
  6. Mathew Shelby

    Mathew Shelby Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd rather spend more on the projector and less on the screen. Would you consider doing a homemade DIY screen. Do a search and you will come up with plenty on that. I have seen some really nice screens where all it took was paint and some crown moulding to form a border for the screen.
     
  7. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 1998
    Messages:
    8,332
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Neil Joseph
    Screens are a subjective thing. If I could re-create the characteristics of a Firehawk for a reasonable price, I probably would do a DIY screen myself. Has anyone made this type of grey-based screen that minimizes the reflection of off axis (ambient) light?
     
  8. RobertBy

    RobertBy Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for all the input.with regards to a used crt,where can i find a used crt? and will it be refurbished? will it have any kind of warranty? does anyone know if the cheaper pj's are as good as the more expensive ones? say within $2000 to $6000.i am willing to spend more money to get something that satisfies me more and has better performance.
    i am looking for a pj that will mostly be used in 16x9,but
    has a satisfying ability to make a good 4x3 also.does anyone have recomendations on a pj with these capabilities?
     
  9. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2000
    Messages:
    4,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm, but aren't CRT projectors extremely noisy and heavy? And put out huge amounts of heat?
     
  10. JasonGarrett

    JasonGarrett Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    The NEC HT1000 and Sanyo PLV-70 are the two projectors in that price range that people seem to talk about the most. A few others that are supposed to be pretty good are the Epson TW100, Yamaha LPX-500, and Sony VPL-VW12HT. If you are willing to spend the money to get the very best picture, I wouldn't recommend buying a cheaper projector.
     
  11. MichaelFusick

    MichaelFusick Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would go with the NEC HT1000.

    Way way way way way better blacks...

    Did I mention it will have better blacks?

    Resolution is overated I think..

    Get a panamorph lense for the HT1000 so you can run native 720p.

    LCD = BAD NEWS (stuck burnt pixels, dust blobs, bad blacks, repair issues, glowing greens)

    The PVL70 puts out a lot of lumens , its a light cannon, and good choice if you doing some watching in the daytime with light.
     
  12. Dave Milne

    Dave Milne Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2001
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, CRT projectors are larger and heavier than digital units... and perfect light control in the room is recommended. However, heat output is probably a wash against digital (the bulbs in digital projectors throw a lot of heat). On the plus side, CRT black levels are truly BLACK, no rainbow or screen door effects, stunning color rendering... Overall a three-dimensional, film-like image.
    My Dwin HD700 is quite compact, about 80lb, and almost completely silent... much quieter than any digital projector I've heard. I bought it new (full retail is about $20K with scaler), but if I had it to do over again, I'd go used/refurb (E-home, NEC, Sony, etc). These things come up on Ebay, but I'd stick a reputable expert like the gurus over at the CRT section of AVS forum (Tim Martin of Scottsdale, Curt Palme of Vancouver, etc.) You can also check out CRT cinema .
     
  13. Sean M

    Sean M Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2000
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, for $6k you do indeed have a lot of options. The best picture will come from a CRT around $3k, with a scaler in the $1.5k - $2k range. You can put the rest into a screen or setup and calibration if you're not the do-it-yourself type, though, if this is true, I would recommend digital if you're not at least willing to learn how to touch up the convergence. Yes, it will be a used projector. You can buy from someplace like www.crtcinema.com and pay higher prices if you want a warrantee, or you can buy from Curt Palm or one of the other reputable resellers on www.avsforum.com. All of the good ones offer great after sale support warrantee or no.
    You will have to do a bit of work to get the thing on the ceiling, or just live with it sitting in the middle of your room. They are big, and are heavy, especially compared to something like an HT1000.
    Total light control is a must for CRT, but you really want it if you can get it for any PJ with a decent black level. Still digitals are less susceptible to ambient light as a general rule, LCDs more so than DLP's, as most DLP's that are geared to HT tend to suffer from lower light output compared to LCDs.
    If CRT doesn't sound like your cup of tea, then the HT1000, which has been mentioned already, is your next best bet, unless you have real ambient light issues to deal with. I'm tempted to buy one myself (I currently own a CRT). If DLP is not an option, for whatever reason, then I would look at LCD. The Sanyo PLV-70 is the best of the bunch, with real arguements starting over which is better at a step down in price: the Sony HS10 or the Panasonic L300U. Sony has better resolution by a mile, and the Panasonic has better black levels, an anti-screen door technology, and is a bit cheaper.
    I would try and see any digital projector that you are considering to see if the picture has any flaws that you simply cannot live with. I would try and see a CRT, even if it's not turned on, to get an idea of the size we're talking about. Every projector requires a compromise of some kind, just make sure that the ones you are required to make for a particular projector are ones you are willing to make.
     
  14. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2000
    Messages:
    4,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I nearly bought an NEC LT240 today, but I balked when the shop (a local Chinese-run computer store...great for building PCs, horrible for home theater) told me that they do not take returns except for exchange. I did push a little and asked if they would take it for a restocking charge, and got 15% out of them.
    Unfortunately, I have never seen a DLP in action anywhere. I have no idea if I'm susceptible to the DLP rainbow effect, I did not feel like risking losing $600 just to find out.
    There is a major shortage of good home theater stores in Calgary, it seems. [​IMG]
    Price was $4700 CDN (roughly $3,000 US), which is $500 US below MSRP. I haven't yet found a price for the optional 15-pin VGA to component video cable yet.
     
  15. Trev Barton

    Trev Barton Extra

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't be afraid of the 4:3 projectors compared to the 16:9 projectors with respect to the usual argument of; You will only get this resolution on a 4:3 if you watch 16:9. Irregardless of what resolution people may come up with the simple fact is that the pixels are still the same size. The size of the pixel which is determined by the native resolution of the projector is the real indicator of the overall level of detail. A 4:3 XGA projector displaying a 16:9 movie at "1024x576" is close to the resolution of one of these 1/4 HD projectors like the Z1 will still have a sharper picture because the pixel structure on the Z1 is so big. A larger pixel structure means you have to sit further away or reduce your screen size. Again with the example of the Z1 and a 4:3 XGA projector, the Z1 requires a seating distance of 2X the screen width where as an XGA 4:3 the distance is usually 1.5X to 1X the screen width. If all you will do is watch widescreen movies and HD then a 16:9 projector is a good idea. If you plan on watching TV, using a PC, playing a game console or even fullscreen DVDs then I would get a 4:3 projector. Another thing to consider is that some widescreen projectors are impossible to achieve a 1:1 pixel mapping if you plan on using a HTPC. At any rate your viewing habits should determine which format you choose. I bought a 16:9 projector and returned it because I use a HTPC and I play a lot of PC and XBox games which sucked on a 16:9. I'm not even going to mention the differences between LCD and DLP but I will say get a DLP demo and if you are not susceptible to rainbows, which most people aren't, then go DLP. BTW the Nec HT1000 is a beautiful projector.
     
  16. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2000
    Messages:
    4,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I took a chance and bought the LT240. Darnit, I can see the rainbows in darker movies like Fellowship of the Ring, but can hardly see any at all watching Fifth Element or Attack of the Clones (only a couple of instances in the latter two).

    The image is projected onto a flat-white wall at the back of my HT room, using my HTPC and Theatertek DVD playback software via the 15pin VGA input. 60" diagonal, watching distance of about 8 feet.

    I'm puzzled that I can hear the color wheel speed up if I switch from 60Hz video refresh rate to 72Hz, yet the image starts to tear occasionally, almost as if the projector is only updating at 60hz!

    I am very impressed with the image quality so far. However I dread watching black and white and dark movies though...I just hope my brain adjusts to it with time.
     
  17. Bill Lucas

    Bill Lucas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 1999
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    0
    Random thoughts.

    Yes, CRTs are heavier. No they don't put off substantial heat nor (with some exceptions of course) are they louder than their digital counterparts.

    A bit off topic but your room is going to be an acoustical nightmare. It's nearly a cube. Very, very bad.

    How much natural light enters the room? Is it a dedicated room? What size screen do you want to drive?

    Don't let anyone tell you that you only need control over light if you use a CRT projector. Light control is just as critical with a digital projector. Yes, they're bright enough to watch with light in the room but for critical viewing complete control over ambient light is a must. The image WILL be washed out with light present in the room. Add the fact that digital projectors (at best) do black as a dark shade of gray in a dark room and you'll understand how much contrast range and shadow detail that you lose.

    If it is in your budget you should buy a projector with 16:9 panels. Light spray around the image WILL occur with a DLP projector with 4:3 panels when a 16:9 image is displayed. There is no way around this.

    Resolution DOES matter. Pixel density leads to increased image detail.

    I would stay away from LCD. There are too many limitaions and unless you are looking for a low budget projector (and you say you aren't) there is no need to purchase LCD.

    Don't underestimate the importance of a good screen. The image projected is only as good as the pallete (screen) that it is projected onto.
     

Share This Page