Loud bass effects on fish?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brett_A, May 17, 2002.

  1. Brett_A

    Brett_A Stunt Coordinator

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    I have asked this here before but never gotten a conclusive answer. How do loud low frequencies effect fish in aquariums? I plan to put my Sonosub near an aquarium and do not want to injure the fish. What are the thoughts on this topic?
     
  2. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I would like to know too, although I plan on putting the aquarium in another room.
     
  3. Alexis

    Alexis Stunt Coordinator

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    no problems yet with my 40g acrylic reef tank. The fish don't seem to react to the loud noises of hometheater. The mass of all the water is too much for a sub to displace I think.
     
  4. Barry_B_B

    Barry_B_B Second Unit

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    My sub sits right next to my 55 gal. tank, has for years. Looks like my fish like to rumble just fine. [​IMG]
     
  5. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

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    Smaller tanks are less immune; my 27 gallon tank upstairs tends to splash around quite a bit at reference levels downstairs, so you will want to use caution.
     
  6. Brett_A

    Brett_A Stunt Coordinator

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    This is a 115 gal tank. My common sense tells me it would be extremem tough generating a huge pressure gradient under water by just using sound outside the water but I don't know any equations to try and calculate it or the effect on the fish.
     
  7. keir

    keir Stunt Coordinator

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    actually i think since the water molecules are denser than the air molecules, sound travels better through water than air. the speed of sound in water is also faster than in air.
     
  8. Andrew_Ballew

    Andrew_Ballew Second Unit

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  9. keir

    keir Stunt Coordinator

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    take a bath and put your head under the water.. and barely tap the side of the tub with a fingernail or something. it sounds much louder than it would with the water absent.

    a speaker or a human isnt good at creating sound in water, but dolphins and whales are. and those sounds travel many miles.

    sound waves dont need to displace the mass in which they occur, they just need to compress the material. material that is already compressed can easily transmit compressions more readily.
     
  10. keir

    keir Stunt Coordinator

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  11. Miles M

    Miles M Agent

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    I was wondering about this also, since I plan to put a ~55gal. in our living room about 20 feet from the sub and front speakers. I would have to agree, that from my college days we were taught that water is a better transmission medium than air, because it is denser. And when you go to a pet store, gently tap on the fish tank and you can usually see the fish are startled by a light tapping(even if they are swimming the other way and don't see you tap). So I am worried maybe they may have a heart attack or something when the music is played too loud. hehe, can't believe I am worried about a fish having a heart attack. Anyways, I have been wondering about the effects as well.
     
  12. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    When you scream underwater the air in your diaphgram has to transmit the sound to water. So essentially the air bubbles have soundwaves in them that transfer to water making it inefficient.

    I used to have friends scream under water and each rising bubble would have a burst of sound. The soundwaves seem to get trapped in the bubbles bouncing back and forth.

    My assumption is whales use submerged signals that don't need air to be transmitted. This allows them to transmit signals further than humans screaming.

    I used to play water polo during synchronized swimming, and I noticed (besides the girls) that the submerged loudspeaker ran off very little power and quality was unbearable. Sounds reflects from the solid pool walls giving that "bathroom" effect. But then again, under water sound has to be transmitted to air before it hits our ear drums so it loses more efficiency.
     
  13. Brett_A

    Brett_A Stunt Coordinator

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    So is the verdict that during a peak of a movie which hits 115 db what will be transmitted to the water and what SPLs injure fish?

    Also I would be interested to hear from anyone with fish in their HT room.
     
  14. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    Sorry..
    Remember 115db transmitted to water doesn't mean 115db underwater. It takes over 140db underwater for a sea lion to go deaf and about 160db from a sonar to harm a human being.
    In the event of 170-190 db underwater which has been easily attained in the ocean due to ship propellars and such, this can burst fishes swim bladders. But I doubt your aquarium would ever reach such numbers. [​IMG]
    Undersea acoustical research is still incomplete, the only effects I see that sound has on your aquarium would be affecting the communication between the "fish". Such as mating, predator warnings, or migration. Since you don't have to worry about any of those factors, I see nothing to worry about.
    I don't know what particuar species you'd be putting in there but only the more intelligent sea life such as dolphins and sea lions can get stressed and disoriented by noise.
    In the ocean, fish must live through low frequency sounds with volumes FAR exceeding any loudspeaker known to man. Think about it, active sonar = 230db, oil exploration air charges = 250db, ship propellars = 170db, ultra low frequency Acoustic Thermometry of Ocean Climate (ATOC) = 190db.
    edit: to answer your question I'd have to say 170db underwater will harm your fish. But I'm no underwater acoustics scientist.. just a 20 year old underwater audiophile. hehe
     
  15. erikk

    erikk Stunt Coordinator

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    Something to keep in mind is that the volume that is in the air does not directly correlate to the volume underwater. With submarines the sonar does not actually reflect off the hull it reflects off the transition between air and water. An air and water boundary will reflect quite a lot of sound and not let it transmit into the water.
     
  16. Brett_A

    Brett_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Yeah I know there will be a difference in the transmission through the mediums. I just didn't want to setup my sub near the fish if there was a possibility that I could injure them which it sounds like I don't have to worry about it.
     
  17. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    Keep it next to the aquarium - let the fish enjoy a wave-maker! [​IMG]
     
  18. Bry_DD

    Bry_DD Second Unit

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    I have my 25-31svs next to my 125G tank and have no problem with it.
     
  19. Dave_Olds

    Dave_Olds Stunt Coordinator

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    The biggest problem I have encountered is when cleaning the tank or doing a water change....Hard not splah a little on the sub... [​IMG]
     
  20. ChrisAK

    ChrisAK Extra

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    I have a 55gal African Cichlid tank in the same room with my setup. I have tried to observe any fish reactions to high volumes and have not seen any noticeable behavior changes.
     

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