Kenwood 6070 or Pioneer 811S? (1 Viewer)

[Himanshu_S]

Hi,
I returned my kenwood 6060/KLH 4906 setup because I didn't think it was worth the money. Either KLH makes good speakers or kenwood was underpowered because the speakers didn't distort at all at max volume.

Anyways, now i'm thinking about these two recievers and would like to know which one I should get. They both have almost everything except that kenwood has little more inputs, THX Select and has On-Screen display. It would have been lot easier to make the decision if it didn't have OSD. Also kenwood is THX select. Does this mean anything regarding the kenwood's output? does THX guarntee any output specs?

What I'm really looking for I guess is Kenwood 6070's reviews. I already know 811S does a great job. but if for $100 more, kenwood can also do the same job, I would go with kenwood.
Thanks for ur replies.

 

[Kevin Alexander]

check www.audioreview.com for reviews of the kenwood.

 

[GregK]

Good luck finding reviews on the Kenwood VR-6070 here, on usernet, or even at Audioreview. I posted a request here a little while ago and only received one reply from a nice individual who owned the VR6060, but again no VR6070 owners have posted any complete on-line reviews that I can find. :frowning:
Anyone? ..Anyone...?

 

[GregK]

..kenwood has little more inputs, THX Select and has On-Screen display.

After looking at Kenwood's website for the VR-6070, it doesn't apppear that the 6070 has on-screen display.
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/pr...productId=2452

 

[DonJ]

I would keep saving neither one of those is very good. I have a friendwith the 811S. he kept going on about how great it was until he came over and listened to my H/K AVR320 Paradigm setup.

 

[ThomasL]

Don, unless that informal listen test was done with the same set of speakers in the same environment, it's pretty hard to compare receivers objectively. It's like comparing apples and oranges at least in my experience. I will say that I own the 811S and it performs well in its price range - ~$400. Since the HK 320 is a step up in price (and one would hope performance), it should be better but one would really have to test it in their own environment. If you're a true friend, you'll let him borrow it to try it out
Himanshu, I would say the THX Select doesn't mean much. It is different than the full THX Certification. You can do a search here in the Receivers forum over the past 3 months and find many posts on budget receivers in the $400 range. I don't think you'll find a lot on the new Kenwoods but you'll see a lot about the Denon 1802, Pioneer 811S, Onkyo SR600, Marantz 5200 and Yamaha HTR-5560 as well as a few others like the new Panasonic models. Good luck in your search.
cheers,
--tom

 

[chiante]

yeah, and i loved my avr-320 until it started shutting off over and over. i have a pioneer 850s and have had no problems. my buddy caleb has a 320 also and started having the hk ghost shutting his receiver off constantly this past sunday. i'm glad you are enjoying your 320, i'll never purchase a hk receiver again. no one at the hk repair shop or my local stereo repair could figure out what was causing the problems. i tried line conditioning and even plug it into different outless, bam, same problem. dude i can't tell you which to buy, but you probably won't have a ghost controlling your receivers power switch with the kenwood or the pioneer.

 

[John Garcia]

Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Sony ES, and I normally have H/K in there too....

 

[KevinG]

I bought a 6070 from Best Buy a couple of weeks back to finally replace an old Yamaha Pro-Logic processor that I brought over when I moved from the U.K. ~ I too was seduced by the THX certification, but was very disapointed.

* No OSD (well, not one that I could find anyway) which means setup is a PITA
* The few digital inputs are not re-assignable, which means a few compromises on connectivity if like me you have DVD, CD changer, MD, DSS, PS/2
* Remote is cumbersome and not backlit
* Sound is 'average'
* No composite => s-video up-convert, so it is necessary to have 3 cables running to my TV (composite, s-video and component)
* Kenwood took over a week to respond to my questions about connectivity/setup

My 6070 has now winged it's way back to Best Buy and I have a Sony STR-DA4ES arriving tomorrow...

Kev

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

I have the 811S and am exremely happy with it. I compared it to the Kenwood 6070 and could not justify the $200 price difference just to gain thx certification, especially w/ the drawbacks of the 6070 such as remote and non-assignable digital inputs. All of the 811S inputs are assignable EXCEPT for the front optical, but it doesn't make sense for it to be assignable because it should always be assigned to that front input. The 6070 does have 10 more watts (doesn't matter real world) and discrete amplification as opposed to distributed monoblock amplification. All this means is that there is less power loss when all channels are driven at full power simultaniously (which never EVER happens). I'm sure for the price range you're shopping, you'll be extremely happy with the 811S. You may also want to look into the Pioneer Elite VSX-41. It is essentially the Elite version of the 811S, offering RE-EQ, which is the same re-equalization that is part of THX receivers. It also has 10 more watts, better materials, and an additional year added to the waranty.
If you don't mind ordering online, you can find the following prices:
VSX-D811S for $280+shipping (around $315 total)
VSX-41 for $480+shipping (around $515 total)
hope this helps

 

[DonJ]

ThomasL
yeah he brought over his 811S then he heard the truth. Really they are into completly different leagues then he asked why his 811 did not sound as good when it has more power? the answer is that it doesn't. told him to look at the Pioneer Elite that has about the same price as my H/K the VSX-33TX and look at its power rating then ask yourself why it claims 0nly 80 watts and is priced 200.00 more. Things that make you go HMMMM
Chiante sorry about your prob’s but Pioneer doesn’t compare to H/K in sound quality only when you get to the Elites you get there. The beautiful thing about H/K is that they all sound the same the reason is the use all the same (discrete) transistors, resistors, diodes, etc. and the typical Kenwood doesn’t even belong in the same conversation. I have listened to many receivers separates and this is just my opinion. Dont mean to dog any companies out but recievers are expensive and you want to make sure you get what you pay for.
heres a couple of links.
Forgive my typing I have one broken hand.
H/K 5000 is the old 510 they have DPLII on the new ones
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1875
Cant find the new 811S ethier this is the 810
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1883
then theres NAD
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1879
Denon
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2180
Arcam
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2179
All are from HIFI Choice a U.K rag they are pretty much right on the money.

 

[ThomasL]

Power is really a relative issue. How much you'll need really depends on the sensitivity of your speakers, your room size/acoustics and how loud you listen to music/movies at. For example, with my 811S, I never have the volume higher than -50 for music and -36 for movies - with the scale being -90 to 0 I believe. If your friend is disappointed in 2 channel music with the 811S, have him try the Midnight setting. I found movies to be fine but music to be what I would describe as detailed yet tinny sounding. Others may call this thin, I'm not sure. Using Midnight setting really made the music sound much fuller and warmer sounding to my ears. Eventually, I plan to try a test upgrade to the next tier up for my 811S setup and if I like the improvement, I'll sell the Pioneer to a friend who is in need. This is one of the reasons I like to buy locally at places that have nice return policies.
As for reviews, I always try to read as many as I can. Cnet and Sound & Vision both gave decent reviews of the 850S - which is the 811S and VSX-41's ancestor. And as for HiFi Choice, I've read their reviews and a month ago, on my last trip over the ocean, I read/perused a number of UK A/V rags. I would have to say in my opinion, HiFi Choice's reviews read sometimes more like wine tasting reviews than reviews of electronic equipment. I found all the magazines over there to be no better or worse than any of the ones over here. With the Internet, one can read a variety of opinions from a variety of sources which is a great thing.
What you end up buying really should depend on what features you want, what sound you're looking for and what your budget is. For example, if you can honestly budget ~$700 for a receiver without defaulting on your gas bill or having your kids go hungry than you should not be looking at the 811S or the Onkyo SR600 but at the next tier up - the Denon 2802/3802, the HK 320/520, etc.
Let us know what you eventually end up picking Himanshu.
cheers,
--tom

 

[DonJ]

Well look at the major review sites and see how many are eeven willing to review the H/K 320, Denon 3802 much less the Pioneer 810 or 811S. I did and its pretty much nonexsistent. I went to http://www.soundandvisionmag.com and did not see the the reviews for 811S or the 850 if you could link them that would be great.
And power is more than a relative issue and how you make it and achieve your rating numbers also. Typical Pioneer Sony, Kenwood etc, way over rate there numbers by measuring power to one channel instead of all channels driven. This directly affects not how loud you can play it but sound quality at refrence level. Does it start to shout and blair at you when you start to get into the refrence sound levels or does the sonic picture remain musical, acurate being able to portray distinct voices and there location and depth. What the reciever is made out of make a huge differnce are they using IC's (integrated circuits) or is it a discrete circuitry amp. The discrete circuitry will sound more effortless, full, natural, and have greater impact -- even though both amplifiers say they have the same amount of power. Is it full bandwith can it play between 20hz-20,000hz.
Also HIFI Choice is a good rag. They do double blind test to come up with the results so don't dog them out because they sound very British in there writing. If you look at there review of the H/K its not all favorable but they are able to what it does good and also what it doesn't in a way that a reader can understand.
when you are speaking on reciever terms 200.00 - 500.00 more isn't a whole lot, it might be another 2 months or so in saving but believe me its worth it.

 

[ThomasL]

For anyone interested, http://www.ecoustics.com is a good place to go to get links to reviews for most A/V equipment.
Here is the S&V link alluded to:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/equ...p?ArticleID=62
As for hifi choice, everyone is entitled to their opinion but for me it has nothing to do with whether they sound British or not (I actually don't even know what that means), but it's when they say things like this (taken from a review of the Denon DVD-1600 dvd player):
"As a music player, however, the prognosis is less exciting, for which it is tempting to blame the high measured jitter levels. Holly Cole's album Temptation, which should be all space and subtlety, instead sounded rather cramped and airless, and subtle stereo cues were washed away, the result being indistinguished and lacking in the special quality that promotes involvement."
It's probably me but I have no idea what they're talking about when they say "... lacking in the special quality that promotes involvement."
As for power ratings, other than H/K most of the manufacturers do bloat their specs. A fellow poster (NormanL) who had trouble with his Onkyo SR600 matched with his speakers had a number of the budget models tested in simulatenous multi-channel output. The results were fairly interesting. My overall point was that many people don't listen anywhere close to reference levels. For those that do, power is certainly going to be an important issue paired with the sensitivity/wattage rating of your speakers as NormanL learned the hard way unfortunately.
cheers,
--tom

 

[DonJ]

"As a music player, however, the prognosis is less exciting, for which it is tempting to blame the high measured jitter levels. Holly Cole's album Temptation, which should be all space and subtlety, instead sounded rather cramped and airless, and subtle stereo cues were washed away, the result being indistinguished and lacking in the special quality that promotes involvement."

To me this is something that anyone with a good home system should understand. Example I have a Dish PVR-501and also AT&T digital cable. They are both connected to my AVR 320. The dish which is completely digital is connect via an Interlink® Lightspeed Reference Fiber Optic Digital Cable Toslink and the cable box has no digital output so its connected via Interlink Reference® - Reference Quality Audio interconnect RCA cables.
When I listen jazz on the dish there is depth and the highs seem to be floating on top I can hear the piano is on the left hand side of the stage and the guitar is center in front of the drummer everything is spaced nicely in the Stereo stage. When I switch to Cable everything goes flat, the highs are no longer airy and there is little depth and the stage is now blended. I no longer differentiate between instruments on the stage every thing sounds clumped in the middle. Bass has no extension and is bland at best. I have lost that stereo subtleness that makes HIfi, HIfi. I’m no writer so forgive my rambling and repetitiveness but I relate because I listen to these qualities in my own system. If you can’t relate you might want take a look at why rather than saying its bad writing?

 

[aldamon]

I would keep saving neither one of those is very good. I have a friendwith the 811S. he kept going on about how great it was until he came over and listened to my H/K AVR320 Paradigm setup.

So you took the time to unhook your receiver, connect his receiver and calibrate the 811 in your house so he could see the difference? Wow. You're either a great friend or you have a LOT of time on your hands or both.

Honestly though, on Pricegrabber, the lowest price for the HK 320 is $215 more than I paid for the 820. I would certainly hope the HK performs better. Frankly, that $215 would have converted my wife's my opinion towards my first HT system from a teetering yes to convicing NO in a heartbeat ($700 to $915).

Also, I'd like to see some more reviews of these products because your negative opinion of the 811 is the FIRST I've read on this board. It sounds great to me calibrated with the JBL NSP-1 package.

 

[DonJ]

aldamon
I got my 320 for 485.00 and yeah we work together so I do have a lot of time and I am a good friend of course.
For the price 811S is good but if ya save a little longer you can get way more bang for the buck. There is just a big differnce between them. I just can't stress this enough. I'm the same way I don't want to wait for anything but IT IS worth it. In a theater or music system sound is everything and I wouldnt be stressing it this hard if the 200.00 difference wasn't as large as it is.
If you like Pioneer and don't want to pay for Elite see the 850S. i read the review and it doesn't sound bad I'm going down to take listen this weekend.

 

[StevenK]

I currently own the 811S and have owned the H/K 520....both as pre-amps. I agree with DonJ in certain respects...musically, the H/K just seemed better. Nothing I can quantify--it just seemed "fuller". However, DD and DTS performance between the two were identical. In fact, I would give the nod to the 811S because of the inclusion of DD-EX. So maybe that's one factor you should consider. How much music do you listen to? Or will movies be your receiver's main duty?

For me, it was an easy choice, as I preferred the DAC of my CD player over the DAC of either receiver. So I just went with the receiver that was cheaper, had more features, had a better remote, and was less prone to shutting itself off for no reason...the 811S.

PS. I don't think there's a better bang for the buck than the Pioneer 811S. The Sherwood Newcastle 963 comes to mind, but that one really is in a different league.

PPS. Sorry for veering this thread further off the Kenwood vs. Pioneer question...but I think it's a valid point to note that a receiver that is $200 more expensive is by no means better. It's all dependant on YOUR ears.