Just cracked the woofer on my CBM-170 *sigh*

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marcus Lewis, Sep 15, 2002.

  1. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    As some of you may know I had ordered a pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's that although really nice, have been an adventure in obtaining.
    One of my speakers mistakenly went to Germany, then when I finally got it, it fell from a stand that collapsed and died.
    My review of these fine speakers can be found here:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=88431
    Well yesterday, I managed to crack the woofer on one of my CBM's during an extended high decibel playing session ...
    I swear I've had the worst luck with these speakers.
    Service has been top notch from David at Ascend ... And just when I was set to order the center and surrounds to complete my package ....
    As it stands, I have 1 dead CBM, with a separated woofer, tweeter and dented crossover, 1 CBM with a cracked woofer and one other functional speaker ...
    At this point I'm thinking of going Klipsch (RF-3's ??)as there's a local dealer here in Trinidad and I should be able to easily get the SPL levels from the speakers to keep up with my dual SVS 16-46 CS+ combo ...
    I'm actually hoping the Klipsch will surpass the SVS for output capabilities ...
    Anyway just sharing, suggestions are welcome ..
     
  2. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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  3. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  4. Manny_S

    Manny_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Why are you screwing around with all these subs? Aren't the dual SVS subs enough?
     
  5. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  6. James Bergeron

    James Bergeron Supporting Actor

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    I think what people are eluding to is your are going insane on the BASS! Calm down. Too much bass sounds like crap, How hot are you running your system? As John mentioned if you calibrate it shouldn't matter what your speakers are (to a certain extent).
     
  7. Manny_S

    Manny_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Ah, my mistake. When you say "cracked", are you saying the voicecoil is damaged or the cone tore or the foam surround came apart?
     
  8. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  9. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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  10. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    What are you using for amplification for the mains? It almost sounds like you are either overwhelmingly overdriving them or are grossly underpowering them. I've never experienced a cracked driver just from use.
     
  11. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  12. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Power doesn't seem to be an issue.
    The Klipsch should be able to make better use of the power though, as they are quite a bit more sensitive than the CBMs - sensitivity of 89dB, which is not bad, but the Klipsch are much higher sensitivity (something like 98dB, as mentioned)
    What x-over point are you using with the CBMs? I noticed they are only good to 69Hz -3dB, which is kind of high, and feeding them with a lot of power and frequencies below that could be a factor in killing them again. Maybe you need to turn it down? [​IMG]
     
  13. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  14. JasonFab

    JasonFab Extra

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    Hello Marcus,
    I am sorry for the string of bad luck you have had with your speakers. This is indeed a rare occurrence amongst our customers.
    I can personally assure you that it was a US Postal Service error regarding the speaker that ended up in Germany, you received your other speakers without incident. We had nothing to do with that error in routing and to expedite your receiving the mis-routed speaker, we fully paid for all additional shipping charges. We could have waited to file a claim with the USPS in order to have the speaker re-shipped at no charge but this would have delayed your receiving it even longer so we elected to pay for complete new shipping charges.
    Regarding your damaged CBM-170 that fell off your stand. Again, we can't take responsibility for this either as you mentioned in one of your posts that your stand actually broke due to the weight of the CBM-170. The speakers, as you know, are quite heavy and dense for their size and suitable stands are required. We felt bad regarding this incident and we sold you a complete replacement speaker at cost. I think most typical manufacturers would have charged you full retail for a replacement.
    Now, regarding your cracked woofer, a most unfortunate circumstance. A woofer that actually cracks (a tear or rip appears in the cone) indicates one of two things. Either yourself or someone else accidentally poked the woofer cone and caused the damaged, or, the woofer was exhibiting excessive movement. I am most certain that the damage was not caused by mishandling. Because the cone was damaged without the voice coil burning (which would have seized and frozen the woofer cone in place), the speaker was not receiving too much power. To the best of my knowledge, we have only had one similar situation arise such as this and the problem, as I will explain, was due to the consumer playing his system at an extremely loud volume level and having his receiver speaker configuration set to large.
    The CBMs, as you know, are ported speakers and tuned to approximately 50 hz. In technical terms this means that woofer cone movement is kept to a minimum from 50hz and above but cone movement will become excessive at below 50hz. Many manufacturers will "protect" their speaker with the addition of a high pass filter which will filter out very low frequencies from reaching the woofer (similar to a subsonic filter). Achieving this means placing a very large capacitor in series with the woofer and this will compromise the sound quality of the speaker. As you have personally experienced and commented on, the CBM-170 is exceptionally clean and detailed and we will not compromise this.
    As I have read in another of your posts regarding your setup, it appears that you might be running your receiver in the "large" setting occasionally. This can be a problem if you are demanding extreme spl's from the speaker, especially if you want them to keep up with Dual SV subwoofers! If you are not running in the "large" configuration and your receiver has an adjustable high pass filter, I recommend setting the filter to its highest setting in order to minimize the amount of extreme low frequency information being sent to the CBM at such high volumes. I have also seen some receivers that have a setting that sends the LFE channel (.1 in 5.1) direct to the speakers and the subwoofer. Of course, the LFE channel should only be sent to the subwoofer.
    Another issue might be the fact that you are asking only a pair of bookshelf sized speakers to keep up with a pair of massive subwoofers. Keep in mind that room acoustics will reinforce low frequencies by as much as 6-12db and this reinforcement will not continue up through the frequencies that the speakers will be reproducing. Because of room effects, the speakers might have to work 4 times as hard to keep up with your susbs. It seems that you did not damage the tweeters or burn any voice coils, so you were not overpowering your receiver. My recommendation? Plain and simple, complete your 5.1 setup by adding more speakers. With three more speakers you should not have a problem demanding such high spl's to keep up with your subs, provided the receiver is set to "small"
    I am more than willing to send you a replacement woofer at no charge and pay for the international shipping charges. All I ask is that you assure me that when you are using the speakers at such high spl levels that you set the receiver to "small".
    Please email my partner, David, and he will expedite this for you. If you lost his email address, you can reach him at [email protected]
    Thanks for your time.
     
  15. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Ummmm ... I don't know what to say ...

    I have said it before and I'll say it again, I have recieved exceptional treatment from Ascend Acoustics and I am in no way faulting the CBM's as I've been very happy with them in spite of any mishaps.

    As was stated in my review, Ascend clearly went out of their way to provide me with exceptional service and the product is also top notch.

    Let me just state that the speakers were set to small, but I was really blasting my ststem in 2ch stero as I am frequently prone to do, when the woofer cracked.

    Personally, I just think it was a run of bad luck ... and I have never faulted the company or product for my personal misfortunes.

    Additionally, I told David when he offered me the replacement CBM at cost that I would hate for you guys to incur a loss at the close of the transaction. He emphasized that me being happy was the priority, so we went with that ...

    So, when I do contact David for a replacement woofer I will pay for the cost of the woofer and the shipping, as the last thing I want to be viewed as is a "problem" customer.

    Likely, after replacing the woofer in the otherwise good box, I'll eventually ship the box with the damaged internals for your guys to fix and then assign the 3 CBMs to a secondary system that's not pushed as hard ...

    At the end of the day ... I have no regrets about purchasing the CBMs as I believe they are worth more than I paid, but my unique listening preferences require (i think) more than a bookshelf is capable of producing ...

    Anyway, keep well and I wish you gentlemen continued success in your endeavours ...
     
  16. mark mann

    mark mann Auditioning

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    My buddy did the same thing to his woofer on the 170 playing them too loud,the 170 is a very nice sounding speaker for the money and the company is excellant,but it seems to me when you push that amout of power to such a small woofer its gonna giveout on you... your probly feeding about 250 watts of power to them with your amp, to 4 ohm rated speakers.... also i had the whole Klipsh package for a few months and they were killing my ears the horns are hard to take..i listen to jazz and blues and i now have Vienna Acoustics speakers you may want to check out speakers with silk dome tweeters that can really handle the power your giving them...the klipshs were strong in home theater dvd sound,just kinda harsh for my music taste.goood luck...
     

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