It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only (1 Viewer)

[Marko Berg]

Sorry about a second consecutive post, but the following statement warrants its own reply.



I'll preface a harsh comment I am about to make by saying I really do care about the studios making money, and I understand they have to come up with solutions to combat piracy. I stay away from bootlegs and Internet downloads.

Having said that, however, I am quite frankly not the least bit interested in providing solutions on how they can best make my life difficult. Because that's what DRM does; it either involves making software less accessible or subjecting myself to invasions of privacy.

I don't need my music or home theater software related rights "managed" by people who treat me as a potential criminal. The entire "DRM engineering community" can starve to death for all I care. Where necessary, employ strong (but non-intrusive) copy protection (such as Blu-ray ROM Mark) to combat professional pirates, but leave it at that. Don't alienate regular users from new technology.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

I'm completely in agreement with both of your last two posts, actually, and don't think they're a bit harsh. I think "managed copy" is quite lame and I would be perfectly happy if it died a painful demise.

The popularity of the iPod (and of UMD for the PSP), however, indicates that, despite my preferences, there is a significant market for low-rez audio and video experiences "on-the-go". In order to "solve" this "problem" for the consumer, the IT community (which is the source of DRM engineering) and the studios have come up with "managed copy" as a way of permitting the user to do this while allowing the content owners some control over how it is done instead of the rampant MP3-ripping which has characterized the audio version of this story.

Personally, I think they should concentrate on the download model of iTunes for this purpose, as I think it's the way people use their computers and the internet and people are creatures of habit, but doing so would expose them to having to let Apple or someone else in on their profit margins and, as can be seen with the music industry, Steve Jobs is resistant to things like price changes. With "managed copy", the studios get to skip the middle man and keep all of the cash, and jacking up prices is an accounting exercise and not a negotiation.

I'm just trying to explain the studio outlook, by the way, not defend it. To combat the enemy, it helps to understand the enemy, and while I'm not planning on lobbing any grenades into Hollywood offices any time soon, I'm opposed enough to various schemes that the term "adversary" would not be inappropriate.

The one thing I do take issue with is your attitude about the DRM engineering community, though; I'm not in that industry, but I know people who are, and these folks are trying their damnedest to come up with a technological way to satiate the intense paranoia of the content owners in order to ensure we get very cool HD content. If there are draconian measures like internet access involved, it's because Hollywood demanded it in order to agree to HD-content release at all: the DRM folks have made explicit attempts to *not* include it in their specs for playback (HDCP, AACS) because they know it's not user friendly and is a pain in the ass to implement.

 

[Marko Berg]

Fair enough, Aaron, and you're quite correct. I shouldn't blame DRM engineers, since they do work that was ordered by the content owners. I'll rephrase: I hope their line of work didn't exist, and I wish they found something more productive to do with their skills.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

If that were the case, we'd have neither DVD nor forthcoming HD disks. I don't share your view.

 

[RaymondSteiner]

I'm very scared with the way HD Video Discs are looking. Phone requeriment?, it's like a no sale for me.

I just order an Infocus 4805, and i will have it next week or in december (long story), but the way things look, i think i will not upgrade very soon to HD-DVD / BluRay. I think Regional Coding was bad, but this invasion to privacy (they could track even my viewing habits, send me ads and so!) it's unacceptable.

 

[TheLongshot]

Microsoft and Intel officially back HD-DVD

http://today.reuters.co.uk/News/News...N-UK-HDDVD.XML

Jason

 

[Dave Moritz]

For myself the fact that Microsoft and Intel are backing HD-DVD means nothing. I am not a fan of what MS has tried to do with HD and for now have no plans to buy into HD-DVD at all. I would rather back Blu-ray HD instead and hope it does not take to long to see hardware and hd media in retailers.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Neither company is claiming exclusive backing of HD-DVD (nor will they, I predict), and neither is a content provider. This is noise.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I will wait to see what is and what is not included with the new HD disc machines. Its been frustrating that for the most part only rumor seems to be flying around. While there are always possibilities for something stupid to happen. I will wait and see if the studio's mess up HD or if they show us they really want an HD format to work? I was very excited about HD movies but the wait and the rumors has dampened that excitement for now. Also I am waiting for 1080p technology to improve before investing into a new 1080p tv. For now I will just get a 720p Sony tv that will accept 1080i. Heck I am basically replacing a old 12 yr old crt tv with the Sony. And I figure that the Sony will be deligated to another room or just used to view regular tv after my next upgrade.

IMHO the companies and studios are not doing enough to release information and educate the public. Much of the general public does not even know that hd formats are even coming out. The industry needs to get a clue and start marketing HD before it hits the shelves so that the consumer knows about the product and that it is coming out. Its hard to go see something or get excited about something if you dont know it is comming out or that there is a plan for it to be released.

Grade for the Industry on informing the public about hd movies

 

[Cees Alons]

I wouldn't say that yet - they're not really there, the HD movies. In the past we wouldn't be informed at all about these things, in this phase of the developments.

I'm going to predict here now that they (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) will get together eventually!


Cees

 

[PeterTHX]

I have yet to hear "exclusive" in any of this, and MS VC-1 is still part of the Blu-ray spec.

The HD-DVD group is grasping at anything that could be spun "positive". HD-DVD won't change the design of Intel chips, or Microsoft Windows Vista may have "out of the box" support for HD-DVD but NOTHING prevents them from doing the same for Blu-ray.

 

[Gordon Wakim]

Interesting article at Tom's Hardware. An interview with Microsoft's director of technology strategy for Windows Digital Media. He explains why they chose HD-DVD over Blu-Ray.

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...27_190208.html

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Interesting article Gordon. Aaron_Brez had already posted that link in the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Thread which may be a better place to discuss that topic as it is about both formats.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

Quoting the above link from Tom's Hardware Guide:


So at this point in time and not talking about vaporware, HD DVD has more storage capacity than Blue Ray?

Paul

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Possibly. Depends on how much credence you assign to either side.

According to Nils, Blu-ray folks have put out 50GB disks in Japan.

According to Microsoft, they've never been produced outside of a lab.

(although I might point out that, given the miniscule quantities in question, it's quite possible that both statements are completely accurate without contradiction. MS's beef may not be that 50GB disks don't exist, but that their mid-to-high volume manufacturablility has not been proven)

 

[Glenn Overholt]

No, that's sort of apples to oranges, Paul. The BR single sided cap is 25, while the HD double is 30.

This makes the HD single only 15. It's just your standard, run-of-the-mill, misleading, advertising.

Glenn

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

Tomshardware isn't exactly known for their unbiased articles/viewpoints.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

True, Jason, but this wasn't analysis by them, this was pretty much direct quotes. Not to say the source of the quotes was unbiased, though.

I'll be waiting to see what the software titles actually turn out like. Even if it's absolutely true that Blu-ray doesn't have a manufacturable dual-layer process (which I'm not saying, but MS is), if the first HD-DVD disk is The Matrix done on a 15-GB single layer, why should I care that they theoretically could have put it out on a 30GB disk IF THEY DON'T ACTUALLY DO IT.

If, on the other hand, Sony hems and haws and puts out 25GB disks while HD-DVD puts out dual-layers, perhaps there's something to this. Either way, I can't make a judgment until the disks are on the shelves or their specs are otherwise revealed.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

I guess I'm reserving Judgement until I see the disks, I'm not so much a spec fiend I go by my eyes. It's interesting to note, if true, that Blue Rays limitations are theoretical, and the HD DVD format can stand by it's spec now.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I think HD-DVD is getting desperate and even with Microsoft running around trying to act like the HD athority I still dont like what I am seeing with HD-DVD. To my knowledge BR still has more capacity and HD-DVD is not 1080p but 1080i. I want the best picture and the best sound if I am going to shell out money for a new HD format. Not good money for mediocer picture with decent DD and great DTS. We are also supposed to see better surround sound technology but I have seen no release dates for new equipment yet. And the new 1080p sets basically dont accept 1080p picture via the hdmi connection. This entire HD hollu grail thing about getting an unbelievable picture may not happen like they make it seem like it will. Heck if we end up with HD-DVD with its 1080i picture its basically no better than 720p. I would rather spend money on a 1080p format and wait for 1080p displays to improve. I am getting burned out on this entire HD-DVD bs BR thing allready. I just wait to next summer to see if there are any players and media at our local retailers? Till then I dont even think I want to even think about it anymore.