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Lord Dalek

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Joel Henderson
LDs did feel more "special" than DVDs, partly because of price and availability. I'm not anti-big box stores, but when you can buy movies at checkout counters, they do lose that same luster.

But the prices were a massive win for me. LDs were freaking expensive! I regarded it as a great move that I could now get movies with extra features that commanded a $100+ premium on LD for $30 or less!

It also doesn't help that you had to get up every 45 minutes and flip the disc over. In some cases up to 5 times!!!

"bUt ThE sOuNd wAs LeSs CoMpRe"--I don't care.
 

Bryan^H

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It also doesn't help that you had to get up every 45 minutes and flip the disc over. In some cases up to 5 times!!!
CAV discs were the best!!:)
It is funny that such a big inconvenience was a non-issue for me when I owned it.,

I loved every second of my time with it
I kind of regret giving my entire collection, and player away for free.
 

TJPC

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It also doesn't help that you had to get up every 45 minutes and flip the disc over. In some cases up to 5 times!!!

"bUt ThE sOuNd wAs LeSs CoMpRe"--I don't care.
We actually borrowed a machine and discs of “Lawrence of Arabia” and had to change discs every 1/2 hour!
 

Bryan^H

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We actually borrowed a machine and discs of “Lawrence of Arabia” and had to change discs every 1/2 hour!

CAV
"Constant angular velocity or Standard Play discs supported several unique features such as freeze frame, variable slow motion and reverse. CAV discs were spun at a constant rotational speed (1800 rpm for 525 line and 1500 rpm for 625 line discs)[20] during playback, with one video frame read per revolution. In this mode, 54,000 individual frames (30 minutes of audio/video for NTSC, 36 minutes for PAL) could be stored on a single side of a CAV disc. Another unique attribute to CAV was to reduce the visibility of crosstalk from adjacent tracks, since on CAV discs any crosstalk at a specific point in a frame is simply from the same point in the next or previous frame. CAV was used less frequently than CLV, and reserved for special editions of feature films to highlight bonus material and special effects. One of the most intriguing advantages of this format was the ability to reference every frame of a film directly by number, a feature of particular interest to film buffs, students and others intrigued by the study of errors in staging, continuity and so on."
 

Dave Moritz

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I started out with VHS but mostly recorded most of my movies and in the beginning of LD I actually would rent some of the movies and record letterbox movies to VHS and later to S-VHS. But LD was the first format I actually purchased many movies on and I basically only purchased letterbox movies. The main thing that I loved about DVD at the time was the much smaller disc with 5.1 surround mixes. I also would replace Dolby versions of movies with DTS versions and it did not bother me to double dip titles. When HD came out I quickly adopted that as well and due to impatient I adopted both HD-DVD and Blu-ray even though from what I was reading I felt Blu-ray was the way to go. Blu-ray got me to purchase more movies than I had purchased on DVD due to what I feel are better looking transfers. But this also got me to upgrade equipment for video and also newer audio codex. So now I have adopted 4K blu-ray and my entire home theater has been upgraded to be compatible with 4K, HDR, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos and DTS-X. I have in the past worked as a appliance installer so I was in many customers homes. I could not tell you how many people ether still hanging on to VHS or those who did not have HDTV's, computers or a basic 5.1 surround system and sometimes did not even have a decent two channel system. My own brother had a death grip on pan & scan movies despite me telling him how he was missing out on picture he decided he hated it all the way into owning a 16 X 9 HDTV. Like many of us here I have adopted the latest and greatest but I am at that point where I ask myself do I really need anything more than 4K in the home? Do I need more than 11 channels of audio in the home? I know I am not interested in buying what I have in 4K over again so my 4K library will have to hopefully get me through the rest of my life.

To go back and touch on VHS vs Beta briefly and something I feel effected a number of formats moving forward. Sony came out with Beta and some other formats which the masses did not support. But a good part of it IMHO was poor marketing from everything from Beta, Mini Disc and SACD. Sony finally caught a break with the success of Blu-ray after all the other formats failed. The masses adopted the audio CD like wildfire IMHO but not much has happened since and no physical format has replaced the CD. We now have highly compressed digital downloads and digital streaming for both audio and movies. Granted digital streaming and downloads have come a long way and I did get a 4K apple tv and do own digital movies now. I am not sure what can be done moving forward that will get consumers to purchase new gear and what will get them to support new formats moving forward.
 

Brian Husar

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Feb 23, 2006
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I don’t have a fancy system. I have a Logitech Z 906 5.1 system. The appeal was the THX certification. Yeah....I know. But the sound is great. I would love an Atmos system so I can hear true Atmos at home instead of the uprez, but Dolby and the companies they partner with have to price these things for he average working man. A Vizio 5.1.4 Dolby Atmos soundbar on Amazon is 600.00. Time to lower the price.
 

Colin Jacobson

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DVD pricing and availability were a big win for everybody. Everybody, that is, who was primarily motivated by acquiring movies rather than feeling "superior" to other people.

I never said that LDs made me feel superior. I just said they felt more special.

Owning LD was like being in a little club. I didn't care about feeling superior - like "The LD community involves real movies fans and the VHS community is mouth-breathing slobs" - but there was a different vibe about the format than there was with DVD...
 

AcesHighStudios

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Flipping non-anamorphic standard definition discs over 6 times to watch a movie definitely felt very special.
 

RobertR

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I never said that LDs made me feel superior. I just said they felt more special.

Owning LD was like being in a little club. I didn't care about feeling superior - like "The LD community involves real movies fans and the VHS community is mouth-breathing slobs" - but there was a different vibe about the format than there was with DVD...
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were one of the people I was referring to.
 

JediFonger

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YiFeng You
"AI" or algorithm/data-driven/based audio is next one of the Daves up above said it.

but in the meantime... it's so amazing that we have Atmos/DTS-X am i right? :)
 

Aaron Silverman

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I don’t have a fancy system. I have a Logitech Z 906 5.1 system. The appeal was the THX certification. Yeah....I know. But the sound is great. I would love an Atmos system so I can hear true Atmos at home instead of the uprez, but Dolby and the companies they partner with have to price these things for he average working man. A Vizio 5.1.4 Dolby Atmos soundbar on Amazon is 600.00. Time to lower the price.

Human civilization is still about four and a half DaveFs away from being able to refer to an Atmos soundbar as "true Atmos."
 

Stephen_J_H

All Things Film Junkie
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Yes, but more. :)

Everyone with a smartphone is benefiting from computational photography and getting vacation and birthday snapshots far better than they could a few years before. Good sensors plus lots of computer algorithms are doing things on photographs that were a few years ago the domain of skilled photographers and photo editors. But now, HDR is free. Co-adding raw frames to beat down dark current and read noise is done in hardware. Video is recorded at 30 fps, but 60 fps data is to reduce motion blur or do super-resolution computations.

Noise canceling headphones are the canonical example of computation audio in the consumer world. We're now starting see this taken further and can guess at how it might apply to home theater.

Long story short, there might be extensions to Atmos and DTS:X for the high end. I think they can benefit all the more from smart speakers. But I think the real benefits will come soonest to the lower end. And I think pretty soon the sub-$3000 5.1 surround system will be destroyed by an ensemble of $500 to $1000 smart speakers. Similarly to how camera phones are destroying the point and shoot camera market.


To borrow from the Apple HomePod page:


Take a high-end Atmos system: Currently the Audyssey-type calibration systems that consumer audio uses, as far as I know, adjust speaker delay and response function. But they don't measure 3D speaker positions, or have any ability to perform beam forming or multi-speaker noise cancelation. They don't truly calibrate a three-dimensional speaker array for generalized 3D sound. It's just a means to make the speakers have a "flat" response and sound as if from the same distance from a given listening position. And this is all done with relatively puny DSP chips in $1000-class AVRs.

So let's add more speakers -- for the high end enthusiast -- and we'll have microphones in the speakers. And the calibration system with have the computational power of next year's iPhone, with its machine learning ("NeuralEngine") cores. It will self-calibrate. Every speaker can chirp and the whole around will listen. The system would build a 3D model of its speaker locations and also a room model with its obstructions and echoes. With its large array of speakers, it will use beam forming to not just have a EQ curve and time delay, but actively modify sound from all speakers to combat background noise (because even enthusiasts struggle with HVAC, street noise, people walking overhead, etc) and improve localization of three imagery.

Because this is a high-end system, maybe it includes an additional calibration microphone, as Audssey does currently. But instead of just measuring a two foot bubble around the sweet spot, the user will do a multiple reading spread over the entire room. And the system will detect during listening whether you're alone, or in a full room, or if it's just you back you're in the back row and not the front row, and adjust its output accordingly.

But what about the regular person. This is starting to happen with a pair of HomePods for stereo sound. I imagine an ensemble of five "HomePods". Again, they will self-calibrate against the room and each other. No external Audyssey mic or three hours needed for the homeowner to "calibrate". They'll just do it. And if the furniture changes or the flooring goes from carpet to hardwood, it will self-adjust without being told. And the speakers, being ensembles of speakers, will not need to be in the proscribed 5.1 arrangement.


Even simpler then is a soundbar. Take a quality soundbar. Add in microphones and computer brain. Let it self-sense the room's characteristics, and apply machine learning "magic" to the audio processing, and out comes far better faked-Atmos than any bar can accomplish today.
I really think you hit the nail on the head on this one. consider how Sonos' soundbars allow you to connect their Play:1 speakers as surrounds. it's not that far of a leap to incorporate reflective effects and use the built-in mics to expand and refine the soundfield, and a future generation of speakers could incorporate upward firing drivers.
 

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