I find The Empire Strikes Back a perfect movie

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TheoGB, Oct 26, 2001.

  1. TheoGB

    TheoGB Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do. There's not a cast member, a scene, a line, anything I would replace. Original or SE version, they are both good but this was the SW movie with least effects problems in the first place.
    The pace is terriffic, the intwined stories great, the feel fantastic, the comedy excellently dark and underplayed. Finally it has an ending you couldn't expect. I don't care that it doesn't finish the story - it doesn't have to. There are many films which are merely a snapshot of a period of the characters' lives. Just because this isn't contemporary fiction doesn't mean it has to have a definite happy ending.
    Cheers
    Theo
    ------------------
    My band is @ http://www.mokita.net
    My Novelty Coasters
     
  2. Tom-G

    Tom-G Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2000
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2
    It certainly was bold to end a movie on such a downer. People forget how bold a move it was because we are able to watch it without the wait of three years for the next film.
    Time has been very kind to The Empire Strikes Back. Its greatness has only recently been proclaimed. Up until the last few yearsago, the Star Wars fans I knew always favored Return of the Jedi.
    I'm still partial to A New Hope. It has the best story and mix of characters. Not one second does it drag.
    ------------------
    As for the bad rap about the characters--hey, I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day. --Roger Ebert on The Phantom Menace
    AIM: Aureus91 / DVDs / ICQ: 58566493
     
  3. TheoGB

    TheoGB Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    I dunno. I find SW does drag. The whole Tattooine bit is just a tad drawn out. It's great but it doesn't have the scope.
    I thought Jedi was great as a kid but I've never met anyone who really rated it. After they leave Tattooine it just becomes a parody of a Star Wars movie for me. [​IMG]
    ------------------
    My band is @ http://www.mokita.net
    My Novelty Coasters
     
  4. Richard Kim

    Richard Kim Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    4,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    quote: There's not a cast member, a scene, a line, anything I would replace.[/quote]
    Oh, I wouldn't say that. ESB is plagued with the same cheesy dialogue as all the other SW films, mostly from Han and Leia. Here are a couple:
    Leia: Why, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking
    nerf-herder!
    Han Solo: Who's scruffy-looking?
    Han Solo: That's a good story. I think you just can't bear to let a gorgeous guy like me out of your sight.
    Princess Leia Organa: I don't know where you get your delusions, laser brain!
    [Chewbacca laughs]
    Han Solo: Laugh it up, fuzzball!
    Han Solo: Afraid I was gonna leave without giving you a
    goodbye kiss?
    Princess Leia Organa: I'd just as soon kiss a Wookiee!
    Han Solo: I can arrange that! You could use a good kiss!
    Imperial Officer: Sir, rebel ships are coming into our sector.
    Star Destroyer Captain: Good, our first catch of the day. [​IMG]
    When the Falcon is inside the space slug, it looks very unconvincing. It looks just like a darkened soundstage covered in plastic with some dry ice smoke blowing. Also, when we actually see the slug, you can tell it's obviously a hand puppet.
    Also, the monkey eyes Emperor looks pretty stupid, and looks inconsistant with his look in ROTJ and TPM. My guess is if Lucas reworks ESB again, he will reshoot the scene with Ian McDirmaid.
    I'm not trying to bash ESB. I just think that many people put it on a pedistal while ignoring its flaws, while they'll jump on the tiniest little imperfection on other SW films,like TPM.
    BTW, my faworite SW film is ANH.
    [Edited last by Richard Kim on October 26, 2001 at 12:44 PM]
     
  5. Scott Calvert

    Scott Calvert Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 1998
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    2
    None of those lines are flaws, IMO.
    The thing about lines like that, is they work if the timing, context and delivery is right. They accomplished all three perfectly.
    ------------------
     
  6. Greg_S_H

    Greg_S_H Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Messages:
    15,430
    Likes Received:
    292
    Location:
    North Texas
    Real Name:
    Greg
    Scott,
    My thoughts exactly. Those lines are perfect and part of the charm. Theo is right: the movie is nearly flawless. And, yes, the wait between Empire and Jedi was agony.
     
  7. Brad_W

    Brad_W Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    I love everything about ESB, except in the special edition when they added Luke Screaming. It was much more "this is my fate, I except it" before when he didn't scream. Now it's like "oh why did I do this."
    Plus, there is one technical flaw. Even in the special edition Lucas didn't edit the Lightsaber retracting sound that happened when Luke still had his lightsaber protracted. It is in the scene where Luke cuts off the Snow Wampa's arm and runs outta there. As he is running his lightsaber is clearly visible, however, the sound of it retracting is made yet still no retraction.
    Regardless, I still love this movie.
    ------------------
    "I was born to murder the world." -Nix (Lord of Illusions)
    My Home Page http://www.geocities.com/masternix/DVD.html
    My List O' DVDs:
    http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=meshuga
     
  8. Tom-G

    Tom-G Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2000
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2
    It's amazing! When it's from Empire it's great, when it's from any other Episode, it's "terrible."
    All of the Star Wars movies had cheesy dialogue and wooden acting. I tend to be forgiving of those things though, when the story and visuals are so good.
    ------------------
    As for the bad rap about the characters--hey, I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day. --Roger Ebert on The Phantom Menace
    AIM: Aureus91 / DVDs / ICQ: 58566493
     
  9. Scott Calvert

    Scott Calvert Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 1998
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    2
    Holy generalities, Batman!
    ------------------
     
  10. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Messages:
    17,631
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Location:
    One Loudoun, Ashburn, VA
    Real Name:
    David Fischer
    "Laugh it up, fuzzball!"
    I think that's the best line in the entire trilogy!
    Seriously, those "cheesy" lines are great. The delivery good, and they fit the characters. It suffers from the same acting problems as Star Wars, and Jedi, but as a whole, it works well.
    Of course, some years ago, I realized that Luke Skywalker was a whiner [​IMG]
    Yoda should have told him, "Do, or do not, no whining!"
     
  11. Alex-C

    Alex-C Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I was eleven, ESB came out....I hated it...I didnt understand the downer ending...I dont even think I realized there would be another movie at that point. In time, it has grown to be a favorite of mine and I refuse to watch episodes 4-6 on anything but DVD (no laserdisc available to me) so I wont be seeing those for a few years.
    ------------------
    My HT
     
  12. Brad_W

    Brad_W Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  13. James D S

    James D S Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    1
    I wholeheartedly agree with Scott. In fact, those lines are some of my favorite!
    When I was reading the list of "cheesy" lines, I thought he was making a joke. Some of those are classic.
    "Who's scruffy lookin'?" That damn-near became a part of the vernacular. Right up there with "I'm gonna get medieval on your ass."
    Great delivery and it suits the character to a tee. It's a great SW moment in my book.
    I agree that the acting was not sharp - in fact, Mark Hamill only delivered one good moment for me, at the cantina in SW, "We don't have to sit here and listen..." That line seemed the most natural and he never gets that natural again. - But that was part of the charm. A bunch of unknowns doing the unthinkable, setting the world on fire.
    In TPM, there was no such excuse available. S.L. Jackson's Mace? Come on, Sam, you could've done better than that.
    (BTW Notice how some of the most charming movies have pitiful dialogue? Evil Dead comes to mind - cult classic. Rocky Horror - cult classic. Star Wars - Genre defining classic.)
    [Edited last by James D S on October 26, 2001 at 05:43 PM]
     
  14. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1998
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    344
    Real Name:
    Lou Sytsma
    TESB was nearly a perfect movie for me.
    The only part I found tedious on repeat viewings is the whole space slug sequence. A cheap device to force Han to leave before he really wanted to.
    The only section of any SW movie I find more tedious is the Journey through the Core of Naboo. That sequence is a total waste of screen time.
    ------------------
    Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.
    MyHTSetup
     
  15. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    The added "Emperor" scream to Luke's fall was the single worst thing Lucas did to TESB.
    It is still the best of the bunch overall. Although, the original, unaltered A New Hope is still a classic.
    WTF was Lucas thinking??!!
    Dan
    ------------------
    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
     
  16. Daryl Furkalo

    Daryl Furkalo Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2000
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    To me, ESB is the best of the three originals. The dialogue listed above are some of the funniest lines in the movie. I really like the appearance of Yoda on Dagobah and him trifling through Luke's stuff and making a mess. Jedi masters ...
    ------------------
    My DVD Collection
     
  17. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 1998
    Messages:
    8,332
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Neil Joseph
    I agree, also that it is right up there as the best SW movie. I hope EpII is as good.
    ------------------
    http://webhome.idirect.com/~orange1[​IMG]
    ------------------
    My Favourite Movie
     
  18. Doug R

    Doug R Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2000
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed, Empire Strikes Back is my favorite Star Wars movie and my favorite movie of all time.
    Another horrid addition to the SE: Eliminating Vader's infamous "Bring my shuttle." line. This was delivered so perfect.. you could just tell Vader was pissed beyond belief. The new line "Tell the Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival" is horrid. And the entire sequence showing us Vader returning to the Star Destroyer is pointless.
    ------------------
     
  19. Michael*K

    Michael*K Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    0
  20. Dharmesh C

    Dharmesh C Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed, in this episode, the characters are more emotionally charged, Kershner got the best out of the actors, made them 3D. The story is strong, too.
    ------------------
    British film-making blows away Hollywood.
    Why? Verisimilitude!
    Superman CINEMA
    http://www.deceptions.net/superman
     

Share This Page