HAWAII (1966) Roadshow vs. General Release Version (1 Viewer)

[Joe Caps]

You are partially right here.
Hawaii was generally not in stereo as the Mirisch brothers thought it would cost too much money.
they did make a few (not all ) 70mm prints that had only four reels in stereo
1. the Overture and Main title reel
2. An AB reel ( double reel) that had the storm at sea and the arrival in Hawaii.
3. the final reel including the exit music.
this was only on very few prints - New York City yes, Los Angeles no.
these few prints cost as much to make as a complete stereo print.
Why? Because on a 70mm mono print, the other blank magas have also to be laid down so the film is balanced and not get warped in the film gate.
the soundtrack 2 c d set. the original album is stereo because that is a rerecording. However, the opening monologue is off the stereo print.
that did not need to be rerecorded as it is still under the original film dialogue.
the expanded cd two is from Elmers personal mono tapes.
the original mags would be stereo if UA could find them.
Lots of fake blue was added for the laser leaving white clouds, white hair and eyes turning grossly blue also. I love the colors and sharpness on the dvd.
the elements for the short version of the film must be in good shape, If they had faded badly, the sky would be strating to turn greenish, anything white would look yellow, etc, but that's not the case here.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

And thanks for those comparisons, Chuck. It's easy to see that with DVD, the image attained clarity and contrast at the noticeable loss of blue in the color timing.

And doesn't it appear to be vertically stretched? Check out the close-up of Andrews.

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by Chuck Pennington /t/319803/hawaii-1966-roadshow-vs-general-release-version#post_3913623
And doesn't it appear to be vertically stretched? Check out the close-up of Andrews.

Yes, I do see what you're driving at.

 

[Jim*Tod]

Thanks Douglas and Joe for the sound info.

 

[NY2LA]

The Turner Logo is not on the HAWAII Laserdisc.  I have it and just looked at it, no Turner logo, just the MGM/UA logo.  Yes the people now with Warner were at one time with MGM and did an excellent job handling the MGM and Warner Library at the time. Yes you did see the tacky Turner logo on pre 1986 MGM films, one the RKO films and on the pre 1950 Warner films and Cartoon, but not on any UA releases which included the Jame Bond and Rocky titles.  In1996, when Warner bought Turner, the MGM pre 1986 and pre 50's Warner Brothers films went to Warners but MGM continued to release those titles on home entertainment platforms due to the agreement when Turned bought the films in 1986.  In 2004 Warner gained control of all those titles and have since released those titles.  They never had control of HAWAII that has always been a MGM/UA property. 

You can argue or debate ownership until the cows come home. The administration in charge of handling this title at the time it was reconstructed, having been under the banners of both MGM and Turner, were wholly responsible for the reconstruction, not any corporate company regardless of ownership. They did not get sold around as often as the corporate entities did, and at least one person with the experience and ability to lead such an endeavor is now installed at Warners.
From all evidence of the handling of catalog titles by Fox, and the corporate entity currently holding the name of MGM/UA, we see no associated administrator interested, knowledgeable or capable enough to locate and reassemble the elements for the complete version. One can only wonder when the assets changed hands whether any complete OCM or YCMs survived. That would be a question for Mr. Harris.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by NY2LA /t/319803/hawaii-1966-roadshow-vs-general-release-version#post_3913693
You can argue or debate ownership until the cows come home. The administration in charge of handling this title at the time it was reconstructed, having been under the banners of both MGM and Turner, were wholly responsible for the reconstruction, not any corporate company regardless of ownership. .

We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

We will just have to agree to disagree. 

Who owns or controls the film is only part of the issue - the roadshow version was edited together from various sources on video, so simply making a new transfer is not so simple. It would have to be reconstructed again, and the time, effort and money involved is where the company who controls the film comes in. It's like how the situation was with the director's cut of ALIENS. It was created for Laserdisc, and there was some delay getting that version onto DVD because it would have to be assembled again. I hope that they did it on film the second time around...
So sad about HAWAII - it is such a good movie. So much of Julie's best scenes were cut. I understand that it is long and they felt the need to trim it, but I just wish they had carefully pruned some other moments instead.
One entity putting the Laserdisc master together and another entity currently distributing the DVD has nothing to do with why it isn't on DVD in that form. They could've either put out the roadshow master as is from the Laserdisc, warts and all, or try to make a better, new anamorphic transfer of the general release version for DVD. I'm glad that they at least made that effort for the DVD, even if it is in mono and has blown out highlights and many reels where blue has all but completely faded. Oh, and the image appears to be slightly vertically stretched.
For now, neither the Laserdisc nor the DVD is anywhere close to optimal for viewing. I wonder if this one has been on MGMHD? I remember when I had that channel they showed THE HAWAIIANS quite a bit.
If anyone is interested, here is what is printed inside the gatefold jacket:

 

[Matt Hough]

I had a lovely afternoon with Hawaii today. The film is much better than I remembered, and this is definitely the version to own. So glad I have this on laserdisc. It's a keeper.

 

[NY2LA]

One entity putting the Laserdisc master together and another entity currently distributing the DVD has nothing to do with why it isn't on DVD in that form. They could've either put out the roadshow master as is from the Laserdisc, warts and all,

Old laserdisc masters don't necessarily change hands with the rest of the elements, and can end up in all sorts of places, including the trash. Studios issuing such titles today are about 99% totally ignorant of what was released previously, or where the masters for those previous releases are.

If anyone is interested, here is what is printed inside the gatefold jacket:

Calling Mr. Mirisch...

 

[Chuck Pennington]

One entity putting the Laserdisc master together and another entity currently distributing the DVD has nothing to do with why it isn't on DVD in that form. They could've either put out the roadshow master as is from the Laserdisc, warts and all,

Old laserdisc masters don't necessarily change hands with the rest of the elements, and can end up in all sorts of places, including the trash.

The overture and exit music are lifted off of the Laserdisc master, with the exact same still images and analog dot crawl and all. Why they didn't make new graphics to match the clarity and sharpness of the feature I don't know. They obviously have the Laserdisc master still, but it wouldn't make for a pretty DVD, as the trailer included on the DVD in non-anamorphic widescreen, from the same transfer as was used on the Laserdisc, bears witness.

 

[NY2LA]

The overture and exit music are lifted off of the Laserdisc master, with the exact same still images and analog dot crawl and all. Why they didn't make new graphics to match the clarity and sharpness of the feature I don't know. They obviously have the Laserdisc master still, but it wouldn't make for a pretty DVD, as the trailer included on the DVD in non-anamorphic widescreen, from the same transfer as was used on the Laserdisc, bears witness.

Laziness. Why didn't they make a new Entracte title for Fiddler instead of stretching the old one to wider than it was intended? How do you know those titles were lifted from the laserdisc MASTER and not a copy of the Laserdisc? It's been done.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

Laziness. Why didn't they make a new Entracte title for Fiddler instead of stretching the old one to wider than it was intended? How do you know those titles were lifted from the laserdisc MASTER and not a copy of the Laserdisc? It's been done.

Because it is more likely to be from a higher quality source than a consumer Laserdisc. After all, they are the rights holders and also issued the Laserdisc.
And when has something been lifted off of a consumer Laserdisc and pressed to DVD by a major studio? Re-purposing bonus features and even transfers? Yes. But going from a consumer Laserdisc verses some master tape that was used to make the Laserdisc? That seems less likely than the alternative.
I will say this though - the trailer on the DVD of HAWAII looks really horrendous! If they had gone from the Laserdisc, it would've been better. Or maybe they did some kind of processing to it, I don't know.
DVD

Laserdisc

 

[NY2LA]

Because it is more likely to be from a higher quality source than a consumer Laserdisc. After all, they are the rights holders and also issued the Laserdisc.
And when has something been lifted off of a consumer Laserdisc and pressed to DVD by a major studio?

Oh, you'd be surprised. Have you ever seen a laserdisc master from that era? I'm not talking playback, I mean the item itself? Not very big and a format that hasn't been used for years. Such things can and do easily go astray. Seriously.

Re-purposing bonus features and even transfers? Yes. But going from a consumer Laserdisc verses some master tape that was used to make the Laserdisc? That seems less likely than the alternative.

(see above)

I will say this though - the trailer on the DVD of HAWAII looks really horrendous! If they had gone from the Laserdisc, it would've been better. Or maybe they did some kind of processing to it, I don't know.

or used A COPY of the laserdisc...

 

[Chuck Pennington]

Oh, you'd be surprised. Have you ever seen a laserdisc master from that era? I'm not talking playback, I mean the item itself? Not very big and a format that hasn't been used for years. Such things can and do easily go astray. Seriously.
(see above)
or used A COPY of the laserdisc...

I used a copy of the Laserdisc, and mine didn't look like that.
How likely are they to have the Laserdisc and a Laserdisc player at the post facility and NOT have D-1 or D-2 playback capability?

 

[NY2LA]

I used a copy of the Laserdisc, and mine didn't look like that.
How likely are they to have the Laserdisc and a Laserdisc player at the post facility and NOT have D-1 or D-2 playback capability?

Laserdiscs and players can sometimes be easier to find than Laserdisc masters. I'm not claiming absolute knowledge in this case, only that i've known it to be possible.
After all we have learned about whole sections of films, stored on substantial size 35 or 70mm reels, having been lost or discarded, is is so surprising that a little D2 tape from the early days of laserdiscs could go astray after changing hands at least twice? Especially since laserdisc was a niche format with no departments dedicated specifically to their production, and today's studios see no relevance to laserdiscs. How many times have people looked at a new video release, taken issue with something and wondered out loud why the studio obviously never bothered to look at the previous release?

 

[mrmeadowlark1984]

Turner/Warner never had any rights to HAWAII. It was a United Artists Film and and basically resided with MGM except for that short 10 months in 1986 when Turner owned both the UA and MGM libraries. The "reconstruction was done by MGM around the same time they did the IAMMMMW and The Alamo. Turner held the UA film for such a short time that he did not do anything with them and Warner never had control of the title. The Laserdisc is from MGM just as The Alamo and IAMMMMW were.I wrote MGM when they announced the DVD version of HAWAII asking if it was the roadshow version. My answer was that no, for the elements for the longer version were in poor shape. That seems to be the basic answer for the longer versions of IAMMMMW and The Alamo.The DVD is a great transfer, but as with Chuck, I wish it was of the longer version and included the Intermission, which it does not.

I own VHS Versions of "Hawaii", "The Alamo", and "It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World", all put out by MGM/UA Home Video around 1995 as part of their "Screen Epics" Series. In the case of the first two movies, they are the uncut versions, and in the case of the 3rd, it is the "Partial Restoration" done in the early 1990s. They all have the Turner logo on the boxes and at the end of the movie. That is odd as all 3 were/are United Artists releases. This has lead me to come up with an alternative theory regarding Ownership. Judging as how Turner Classic Movies showed these particular versions of these 3 films long after they became unavailable to the general public, I wonder if perhaps somehow Turner acquired the rights to the "restored" versions, or at least holds exclusive broadcast rights to them.

 

[JoHud]

Now that this thread has been bumped, has anyone bought the TGG Direct MOD to make comparison? Disappointing that TGG Direct has decided to go MOD on some titles, but the description says "restored version" and amazon lists a longer running time. The hitch is that it is also paired with another film and the running time could be referring to the other film.

 

[Greg Krewet]

I have bought this and it is very much the short version of Hawaii. It is on 2 discs but with no intermission. The disc change is actually in the middle of a deathbed scene. Extremely awkward. Hope this information helps.

 

[ahollis]

I have bought this and it is very much the short version of Hawaii. It is on 2 discs but with no intermission. The disc change is actually in the middle of a deathbed scene. Extremely awkward. Hope this information helps.

Well that is irritating news.

 

[ABaglivi]

After reading these responses, I went over to Ebay and bought the laserdisc. I have always admired this film and can't imagine it as the lower half of a MOD double bill.