Great article on all the post format war doomsaying... (1 Viewer)

[Douglas Monce]

I think there is a presumption that there is a production bottleneck in the blu-ray pipe line. There clearly was at the start of things and with titles getting canceled or delayed even now, it suggests that there may still be a problem in this regard. How quickly production can be ramped up to meet the needs of all the studios, plus minor releases remains to be seen.

I don't think production limitations are the only issue, but I do think its a major factor.

Doug

 

[RobertR]

It's a factor, but I was addressing the post that made it sound as if production costs are the major obstacle to mass market acceptance. There are several other factors involved.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

They don't. That was the point of my post. The poster I was responding to made a statement as though they were somehow linked (ie, that without mass market adoption production would be a problem). I intended for my statement to disassociate the one predicating the other.

 

[LarryH]

Were they really putting less emphasis on this issue before the collapse of HD DVD? My expectation is that the loss of the HD DVD production channel will result in fewer total HD releases for some time to come. This directly impacts the consumption rate for purples (not peoples ) like me.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Hey Larry,

part of getting WB to agree to go blu was demonstrating that BD50 replication capacity was up to the job to go wide-scale with all the major studios. WB wanted to be sure that BD50 replication could really support (or soon support) a single-format production demand with all major studios participating before they were willing to move the industry in the blu direction.

So yes, even from November of last year this issue was a hot-topic on the table of the BDA.

 

[Paul_Scott]

production bottleknecks was only one of several issues I had in mind when I lamented less releases in the future. I'm typing these posts out on a phone so it's hard to get across everything I want in one swoop. The other big reason I feel we will be getting screwed now in terms of variety and quality titles is because their is no longer an incentive for the single format to distinguish itself in this area. Had the war continued at the same pitch, I think there is a greater possibility we would have gotten Lawrence of Arabia this year as per Penton Mans comments from last year. Now this title isn't even likely before 2010. If there was still a fight for the audiences affections and support, do you really think Sony would have backburnered this for two more years at least? I don't. The only good thing about the wars end is that they are finally being honest about how lousy the Bd format is for moving quality classic material- despite that "amazing" (and wholly disingenuous) software sales advantage. Despite being not only a Spielberg classic but something whose main production costs were leveraged thru sd dvd sales, Close Encounters apparently couldn't make money on the format with something like 6 million + players in the field. A real same then for non format cheerleaders and movie buffs who merely want higher than sd quality...since a seemingly sound alternative/auxilliary source just closed up shop.
Which is why I lean more towards 'doomed' now than to praise and thankfullness. We're now going to reap the harvest a single, less efficent, higher cost, younger demographic format has sown. The wars over and we all lost.

 

[TravisR]

The info that I read said that it "barely made any money". That's hardly a major success but it's not really a colossal bomb either.

 

[Paul_Scott]

noted and revised. Thanks. Although that is in some ways worse (for us) as it implies the studio won't be extending itself in the areas of classics unless the payoff is large and immediate. that doesn't strike me as jibing well with the idea of growing a new format with a solid base ( of good high quality catalog releases).

 

[Douglas Monce]

Although I'm not sure this is the case yet, I can see the situation going in the direction you suggest. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. As I've said before I haven't bought a single HDM title since before Christmas and the only one I'm really interested in right now is Patton.

We'll see what Warner has up its sleeve in the coming months, but so far the demise of HD DVD hasn't been good for classic movie fans.

Doug

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Let me get this straight.

Why must it be sooo bad if the format/market takes the route of drawing the young male, blockbuster action demographic *first* anyway? It's not like that guarantees that classic catalog (and other fare that don't fall under "young male, blockbuster action") won't ever make it in the format.

Personally, I think it should just take whichever course best brings around the long term success of the format.

Sure, this way would mean the traditional film buffs will have to be extra patient. But what would the realistic alternative be though? We didn't see the traditional film buffs come out in droves to rally behind either format during the format war even when Toshiba decided to slash prices big time. Most just sat on the sideline.

If the format/market goes the route of "young male, blockbuster action" demographic *first* before eventually serving the traditional film buffs, well, who is it really to blame though? You can't expect these multi-billion corporate entities to put blind faith in film buffs who did *not* do a thing of significance during the format war, can you?

For myself, I want variety in my choices for film. If the format/market decides to go one direction first, that's fine w/ me. If it decides to go another direction first, that's fine w/ me also. I just want to see good films in high quality HD whether they be some traditional classics or a solid popcorn flick or whatever else I fancy. And for that to happen, I need one HD format to succeed however it happens -- that may or may not mean mainstream mass adoption though I'd much rather not have to pay LD-like premiums for it in the long run.

IMHO, I think the true film fans should stop bitching about all this and rally around the format already and help make it a success so we can all enjoy films on the format for the long haul, instead of constantly focusing on what it is not yet. And I don't mean we shouldn't let the studios know what we want. But OTOH, you can't expect them to listen if you don't put your $$$ where your mouth is either...

_Man_

 

[Douglas Monce]

I can't very well rally around a format that isn't releasing films that I want to see.

Doug

 

[Robert Crawford]

IMO, the reason why Close Encounters BRD didn't sell as many units as they wanted is because it was priced too high for the market. Not many people except serious film buffs/HT enthusiast are going to spend that amount of money on one film even if it has different versions of it on this release.





Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Then we do reap what we sow. Studios are not in the habit of losing money.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Well, then I guess the format is doomed afterall...

But I should add that my comment was not really directed at you since you do put your $$$ where your mouth is, not just constantly complain about the format and how it's doomed, etc. etc.

_Man_

 

[Douglas Monce]

Does anyone know how Blade Runner did? It seems a good film for comparison as it also had many versions, tons of extra, but was more reasonably priced.

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

You're right I really don't think it's doomed because I think the studios are smart enough to figure out pretty quickly where their market is and the prices that market will bear. I just hope they do that sooner rather than later.

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

I may end up finding out that I'm not the target market for the studios. If that is the case, and blu-ray does end up being a limited market, then there may not be much for me to watch in HD. Hopefully the market will broaden enough that a fair number of classic films will be released.

I must say that I have been very happy with Warner and Universal for releasing a good number of classic catalog titles in HD over the last 2 years. Sony seems to be going in that direction too having released a film like 20 Million Miles to Earth. Hopefully they will keep it up.

Doug

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think it's much too early to say for sure. Without a doubt there needs to be further market penetration to enhance catalog sales. I always thought that classic title releases on HD would be much slower than they are for recent films due to obvious reasoning beyond just market-related issues. It simply takes a lot more capital investment to get classic films ready for HDM releases in comparison to newer films. I can't blame the studios for being careful at this stage due to the limited number of units being sold per catalog title.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Oh I agree. It's one of the reasons I was so surprised at Sony putting out 20 Million Miles. As I said I think Warner in particular has been great at getting out classic titles. But they seemed to think that HD DVD was the market for those at least at the start. I hope that now that HD DVD has gone away, they don't decide that the market for classic titles had gone away with it.

I really don't have very serious concerns about this, it's just the things that float around the back of my mind.

Doug

 

[Paul_Scott]

I've actually bought more discs than Doug has this year,apparently. Two on the dead format (Zodiac and Atonement) and one on Bd (Michael Clayton). Like Doug though I don't see anything until June that I would consider picking up without the incentive of a BOGO sale. Though Tosh was less than candid with their player sales figures until after the hammer fell, I still (foolishly?) take them at their word that production costs were overall lower. I always thought that contributed to Universals liberal release policy. I can't see half those titles making it to bd anytime soon even though they would likely be an easy port. That is why I always felt, and still do that the argument that mass marketizing the format is the only (or best) way to get quality catalog titles is advancing from a premise concieved to support greed filtered optimism. I.e. who wants the royalties from a low unit moving format. Sony invested too much money to get its returns from low runs. Bd NEEDS to be a mass market product to justify itself. If the dead format could have yielded the same or similar margin on significantly fewer units...that is the format that would have been the best hope for us (content fans). If you need 100,000 units on Bd to realize the same net revenue that 50,000 units on the other format would have, then the winner is setting itself up to chase a dragon it will never catch. This is a medium for the few and the passionate- not the many,the fickle, and the cost conscious. Hey time will tell and I hope I'm way off base on this...I just think a lot of peoples optimism here is not based on a sober understanding of who is going to be supporting this stuff week in an week out. And who doesn't have any interest in doing so..
Then again, maybe Tosh found that it's format really wasn't positioned any better and they were honest with themselves about the ceiling of the enthusists enthusiam.