Former House Science Committee chairman believes China is headed to the Moon. (1 Viewer)

[Jack Briggs]

But now there are digital cameras.

 

[Max Leung]

Julie K said:

Ack.

Hmmm. You must be a Bloom County fan. Or younger than I thought. Ack. Phhbbbt! :p)

I like how the article mentions other countries in Asia are monitoring China's progress closely. The US will rapidly fall behind (or have already fallen behind -- one space agency is planning to land on a comet, not a small feat by any stretch).

Does anybody consider the US the leader in space technology anymore? They won't if China makes it to the Moon...

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Does anybody consider the US the leader in space technology anymore? They won't if China makes it to the Moon...

How many communication satelites do the Chinese put up?

Comrade Wong may make it to the moon but probably to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Americans landing on the moon.

Remember when the Russians were ahead of us in space in the early 60's? What did they actually lead in? We easily caught up with their manned excursions and got the moon first. Then we put up communications satelites and sent probes to the distant planets. Even today, if the Russians tried to get to the moon they would be beathen by the Chinese - again on the 100th anniversary of an American ...

 

[Ricardo C]

Ashley, could you repeat that? I keep getting distracted by all the flag-waving...

Reminisce less, develop more. That's how you stay ahead in the space race

 

[Julie K]

We can put up all the communication satellites that we like, but we still couldn't go back to the moon without a serious effort on the same order as the first time. We have gained expertise in some areas but in others we have lost some very important technology.

Max,
I guess I have to plead guilty on the Bloom County thing. I had all but forgotten it but I suppose Bill the Cat proves to be too enduring an icon to suppress completely.

 

[Max Leung]

I believe the Chinese have sent up a fair number of satellites. If not for themselves, then for the multinational corporations (communication satellites mostly).

Sending up a 200 pound satellite is nothing compared to a 10-20 ton lunar module!

And don't forget, the Russians are far ahead of us (us meaning the Western world (tm) ) in fighter jet technology. Particularly the amazing ejection seat of the Mig-29 (TLC had an amazing special on it). And the Mig-29 and Su-27 are still considered the best fighter jets in the world, despite the F-22 and other high-tech aircraft. Too bad they ran out of cash to apply some of these technologies to their space program.

Now, I will readily admit that our Western space probes are the best. But that's because we follow the KISS rule...keep it simple, stupid! The space shuttle, though, is another matter...why the hell does it have to be so complex? Sticking a piece of chewed-up gum on the shuttle's windshield would guarantee total disaster on re-entry for chrissakes!

Hmmm...Bill the Cat's mugshot would make a great moon-flag!

 

[Max Leung]

Here's an article on China's satellite launch abilities:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-00zzi.html

The design and technical performance of China's satellites lag far behind western countries, Zhou Zhicheng, a researcher from the Chinese Academy of Space Technology, said in a report by the Xinhua news agency.

Compare China's 9 percent of the launch market with Canada's ZERO percent.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Because the vehicle that ended up getting built was the result of numerous compromises, intended to a) appease Congress and keep the costs down (thus, instead of building the completely reusable vehicle with the liquid-fueled, manned booster stage, we got a semi-reusable vehicle with strap-on SRBs and one-use-only External Tanks) and b) satisfy the USAF's requirements (the payload bay had to be wider than the Orbiter's original design specifications called far, to accommodate the Air Force's unmanned spy satellites; if the USAF didn't go along with the STS program, Congress was set to cancel it).

The vehicle NASA wanted is not the vehicle NASA ended up with. Also, remember, the only thing that even saved the STS program was a memorandum from Caspar Weinberger to Richard M. Nixon. Nixon, never enthusiastic about the manned space effort (it was a monument to John F. Kennedy, not him), was ready to scrap the manned effort altogether, and Congress was thus inclined.

This apathy/antipathy continues to this day, evidenced by the fact a successor to the STS has never been funded, designed, and built; evidenced by the fact that the X-33/X-34 program has been cancelled despite billions having been spent on it; evidenced by the fact that the Space Launch Initiative has pretty much been shelved (a successor program to the ill-fated X-33/X-34 VentureStar, it was to have culminated in a new-generation manned transport to replace the STS); as evidenced by the fact that even the scaled-back Orbital Space Plane may be cancelled by Congress, despite the fact the remaining three STS Orbiters are grounded and we are solely dependent on the Russian Soyuz-TMA spacecraft to get our astronauts to the ISS; as evidenced by the fact that in all the maudlin' eulogies uttered in remembrance of the heroic crew of STS-107 ("a strong space program is the best way to honor the memory of our fallen heroes"), the talk in Washington now centers around scaling NASA's manned effort still further, with some calling for grounding the remaining Orbiters for good and suspending the manned program indefinitely.

NASA hasn't lost its way. No, it's the powers that control NASA's funding who have lost their way.

 

[Tommy Ceez]

How many chinese will starve to get a Peoples Army officer where we were 30+ years ago?

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Ashley, could you repeat that? I keep getting distracted by all the flag-waving...

Exactly my point. You put people into space because of the propaganda value. Not for the scientific value.

If we sent to men/women into space for the next 25 years and spent that money on unmanned exploration and commercial uses, then we would gain some real scientific and ecconmical value. We could even design an economical space vehicle that in the short time after the 25 year haitus would be a start toward an efficacy of human rearch in space that is not being accomplished now.

 

[Max Leung]

How many chinese will starve to get a Peoples Army officer where we were 30+ years ago?

"Life is cheap, flesh plentiful" - ancient Chinese saying.

Space probes are cool. However, they are a victim of their own success...people see how cheaply successful robotic missions can be made, and then demand that they be even cheaper!

 

[Shawn Shultzaberger]

Didn't Arthur C. Clark say many, many years ago that the Chinese would be up next? My memory isn't what it used to be.

I am with those that think this is a good thing. It will be the kick in the rump the U.S. needs to get things rolling again.

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Space probes are cool. However, they are a victim of their own success...people see how cheaply successful robotic missions can be made, and then demand that they be even cheaper!

Not only are space probes cheap, but they have been very successful.

With the long lead times necessary to put together manned space stations, trips back to the moon, trips to Mars, the space probes will continue to push back the efficacy of manned missions.

In 25 years a space probe will be on the verge of virtual intelligence and make manned missions even less usefull. In 50 years our space probes will totally emulate human action and make manned fligh an anachranism.

 

[Devin U]

Space probes are cool

when I saw this, I thought about the other kind of probing that reportedly goes on in space.

Anyways, kinda off topic, but, I once heard NASA buys tons of those old 8086 based computers that weigh like 90 pounds each to keed the shuttles going, since thats the technology they were built on. I hear they buy like everyone sold on Ebay.

Any truth to that?

 

[Douglas*A*R]

True, a computer will likely have the storage and processing power of a human brain in that time, and androids will probably be common on space missions. However, I really doubt that a computer will be able to operate outside its programming. So, if anything really funky happens out there, we'll need "spaceboots on the ground" to make command decisions.

That presumes that the speed of light is physically impossible to surpass, though. If we can operate machinery in real time, regardless of distance (such as in Ender's Game), a human on earth could take control of androids in the aforementioned funky situation.

However, even if that were possible, I think we'd use the capability sparingly since I believe we have a manifest destiny to colonize. That'd be pretty hard to do unless you have human beings moving through the cosmos to do the colonization.

 

[Douglas*A*R]

yep

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Anyways, kinda off topic, but, I once heard NASA buys tons of those old 8086 based computers that weigh like 90 pounds each to keed the shuttles going, since thats the technology they were built on. I hear they buy like everyone sold on Ebay.

I wonder if NSA ever sold them their old computers, or if they just did the computer hardware version of the paper shredder.

 

[Edwin-S]

We may not be able to launch 'em, but at least our satellites work. The Chinese are probably still reverse engineering the Sputnik.

 

[Max Leung]

Edwin, I was referring to the fact that China is not following strict communist doctrine (you know...a la Karl Marx?).

I mean, just look at Shanghai, and the other "economic zones" that are as far away from the communist ideal as you can get. And really, who cares anyways...space missions require science, and science, strictly speaking, is a method and can pretty much work independently of the government in place. You either make it to the moon, or you don't!

It's a very diverse country. Around a dozen ethnic groups live there, and there are quite a few languages kicking around, not just Cantonese and Mandarin. The differences in dialects are even more extreme than Texas drawls, Brooklynese, and rapper speak in the United States!

Remember, the United States was far behind the Soviets in the early years of the space age...

 

[Edwin-S]

To some extent, I disagree. Scientific advance requires intellectual freedom and discourse. If scientific method was completely independent of the government in place then Russian and Chinese scientific development should be about on par with Western development. Russian and Chinese scientific development clearly is nowhere near that in the West. I attribute that to political conditions.