ESPN's top 100 NHL players of all time (1 Viewer)

[MichaelBA]

Mario Lemieux at his best was nearly an unstoppable force, akin to Maurice Richard in the 1940s or Howie Morenz in the 1920s. But Wayne Gretzky CONTROLLED a game like nobody ever did before or since. Only Bobby Orr is comparable on that score.

In any event, it's probably foolish to think that a single list of players could encompass the "best" of the game. And it's even more foolish to try to rank them in order.

It might make a bit more sense to think of players by position and era instead.

For example... the finest Centers from 1917 to 1946, from Newsy Lalonde to Milt Schmidt; or the finest defensemen from 1946 to 1975, from Black Jack Stewart to Brad Park; or the finest Right Wings from 1975 to the present, from Guy Lafleur to Jaromir Jagr.

 

[Orlando]

Ok I'm a little biased but how can Grant Fuhr (who also I like a whole lot) get on the list and Bill Smith not. Smith got his four cups in a row, didn't get blind sided by the stupid goal. And even more important didn't get his while on cocaine.

 

[Grant B]

I'm surprised Terry Sawchuk isn't higher considering goalies still haven't come close to a few of his records 50 years later and the dead puck era to boot.

 

[MichaelBA]

Terry Sawchuk is inarguably one of the top ten goalies ever, and many long considered him THE best.

No need to be biased about Battlin' Billy Smith. He WAS amazing! Always among the best during regular season for a good fifteen years, give or take. But certainly ONE of the best if not THE best playoff goalie!

 

[Joe Wilmore]

When Hockey players play more than 20 minutes a game, then I might be interested. Wayne Gretzky is not even in the top 500 atheletes of all time.

 

[MichaelBA]

Gretzky had astonishing stamina and played anywhere from 30 to 40 minutes per game, in his prime. He double-shifted constantly.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

yawn.

when you can come argue your point instead of throwing a nonsensical comment (and nothing else) in here, then we might be interested. otherwise, give it a rest, joe.

CJ

 

[Jeff Gatie]

No forward has ever led the league in minutes per game, ever. A seriously high minute game for a defenseman is around 28-30 minutes. A record amount would be a double or triple overtime where someone like Bourque would log up to 45 or so. High minutes per game for a forward, even taking PP/PK (Gretzky never killed penalties back then) and double shifts into account is 25. Look at the season this year, Brind'amour is leading the forwards with 24.24 while Lidstrom has 28.49. I know minutes/game was not a big stat back then, so it probably was not even archived, but I will have a double helping of Christ's computer if #99 ever logged an average greater than 25-28, probably much less.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Tell you what, I'll get you and any athletes you want from any other sport. You can take a crash course in ice skating and we'll all go out and skate a 1 minute shift at top speed. I guarantee you will be crying at the end because your lungs are burning. Now do the whole thing over going 22-25 mph.

If you've never stepped on the ice, you don't know what you are talking about. It's like saying swimming is not a sport because they only do it for 1000 meters when marathon runners go for 25 miles.:rolleyes

P.S. This is also why I respect figure skaters. I'd rather lose a pickup hockey game on 3AM ice, to a girl's team, than win the Olympic gold in figure skating; but to skate flat out for 4 minutes and also jump in the air every once in awhile is amazing athleticism and stamina.

 

[MichaelBA]

Actually, Gretzky was CONSTANTLY on the PK squad in his early 80s prime. He was a short-handed goal monster like no other.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Not in his early days, he was 2nd PK if at all. But we are arguing the inarguable. If we are talking about the greatest offensive threat of all time it is Gretzky, no doubt. There are those of us who saw him play and just had a sneaking suspicion that he was not quite as great at eluding checks as he was made out to be. Being the ref's called anybody who did more than breathe on him and the McSorley/Semenko/Buchberger types were one shift away from pummeling the ones who did breathe on him, the point can be made for a little "protection" helping his career.

I can't argue with his points, it would be stupid. Just as stupid would be for someone arguing he had any physical component to his game, which IMHO is a big part of being a complete hockey player.

"One was protected, the other was a target" - Bobby Schmautz, one of only two players who played with both Orr and Gretzky on why Orr was far and away the best he ever saw. The other guy refused to answer the question.

 

[Brook K]

I disagree Shane. I used to be a big Blues fan too, but there's no way a prime Hull was better than prime Jagr. Hull had a great slap shot, no question, but he wasn't someone who could take over games. His best play was with Adam Oates at center.

But I guess it depends on how you rank things. Hull was probably more consistent over the course of his career than Jagr. Once Jagr wasn't on a good team anymore he started mailing it in.

Either way I would contend Hull is grossly overrated at 27, and I was a big Hull fan back in the day. He was never better than mediocre defensively and was often a liability when the other team had the puck.

Shane, how about Bernie Federko?

Mark Howe (shouldn't even be there), Scott Stevens, Larry Robinson, Lindros, Pronger and Roenick seem too high as well.

And how about Rick Tocchet or Pierre Turgeon?

 

[Christ Reynolds]

i'm sure i can dig up a monitor or two if it comes to that.

i guess my opinion of "best" player of all time depends on how you look at it. if you say it's the player who was that much better than everyone else, it's bobby orr. if it's the guy with the most accolades and personal accomplishments, it's gretzky. if it's the most physically gifted player, it's mario lemieux. best natural goal scorer, and it's either bossy or lemieux. and these are all my opinions, before i get smacked down for them. i just dont think there is a player who qualifies as "best" unless you further define the circumstances.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

phew! i was beginning to get nervous for a minute.

i cant agree with the what if about neely though. and not because of my low opinion of cam, i have quite the opposite. unless he significantly picked up his goal scoring pace, i dont think this would be true. bossy scored 50 goals in every full season he played, neely "only" did it 3 times. although i would have loved to see what could have been in his 50 goals in 49 games season, had he played the whole thing. if bossy had played a full career, we probably would have seen the only 1,000 goal scorer in nhl history. even with missing 13 games in 83-84 (and a few here and there during other seasons), bossy averaged 59.444 goals per season in his first 9 seasons. scary.

CJ

 

[MarkHastings]

What if: Vladimir Konstantinov never got into that limo.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

as the biggest red wings fan outside of michigan, i'd say he was right up there with the best in the past 10 or 15 years. not in the class of bourque or lidstrom (my choices for the two best defensemen since orr), but vlad was solid. when yzerman put the cup in his lap in the wheelchair after winning it in 98, any guy who says he didn't get even a little bit choked up while watching that is either lying or is not a real hockey fan.

CJ

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Blasphemer!!!! Every good Cam Neely fan knows that he scored his 50th goal in his 44th game, the third quickest in history. He played 49 games total, but was snakebit the last 5. Even the friggin' Hockey Hall of Fame gets this wrong. After all, should Gretzky's 50 in 39 count as 50 in "however many games he played that season", just because that's how many he played? I know he scored more, but he had at least 50 in his last game played, which is the logic they use for Cam.

P.S. I'll let you off the hook cause you said season, but don't let it happen again.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

BTW Christ, I agree with your very fair comparison of Bossy vs. Cam except one thing. Bossy never scored 50 goals while also being one of the most feared checkers and fighters in hockey. Just another component in Cam's favor, not that he's comparable to Bossy

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Damn, double post. Ok just so it is not wasted, that cup in the wheelchair shot almost made me shed a tear, but Normand Levielle's last skate around the Garden had me blubbering like a schoolgirl (and they said I was cold in the other thread).

 

[Christ Reynolds]

well i was referring to the season, not the record but i was in the middle of taking a break from a confusing task, so i could have gone either way, getting it right or not. back then, i watched every bruins game, and certainly remember the 50th goal. 50 in 39 games is impressive, and so is 92 goals on the year. but if neely kept up that pace for the rest of the year, and also had a hot streak or two, it wouldnt have been all that hard to break.

while we are on the topic of "what ifs"

if neely had finished the rest of the season on that pace (50 in 49), he would have had 86 goals. in 92-93, mario lemieux went 69-91-160 in 60 games. had he played a full schedule and kept up that pace, he would have scored almost 97 goals and 224 points that year. i remember reading the nhl leading scorers in the patriot ledger (before the internet was popular, imagine!) and i thought it was a misprint. after 16 games, only a handful of guys had more than 10 points, but he had 51.

you're lucky nobody cares about hockey enough to read this thread, or you'd have some explaining to do!

CJ