DTS LFE problem and H/K 520? (1 Viewer)

[Chriss M]

I tried to do some searching on this but i didnt seem to come up with any concrete answers...does anyone know if the H/K 520 suffers from the DTS LFE problem where the LFE track is 10 db's too low?

If it does have this issue, how do you go about correcting for it, since the 520 has no seperate LFE adjustment capability?

 

[Paul Clarke]

Edited due to Brain Fart:

I originally thought that the 520 was the same as the 510 in this regard but after checking the manual I see I was in error. With no LFE adjustment EXCEPT through test material, it appears you will need a test disc that is both DD and DTS capable. I'm not sure but the Sound & Vision disc has both modes I believe. Once the +10dB adjustment has been made with a DTS source it is memorized as would any other sound mode LFE adjustment.

 

[RobP]

does anyone know if the H/K 520 suffers from the DTS LFE problem where the LFE track is 10 db's too low?

Yes it does. As far as correcting it, the only way to do it is to turn up the sub volume 10db in dts mode. I called Harman tech support and they verified the problem. They claim "this is the way all dts receivers are" and said something along the lines of, All Dts encoders being that way and that its not there fault. I have no idea why its like that but as far as I'm concerned its one more area in which I'm aggravated with this receiver. Thats after I had to replace the remote TWICE, having to deal with my receiver randomly shutting off when ever it feels like it, not recognizing the signal from certain movies on my RV-31, and then finding out the lfe is set 10db to low but unfortunately there is no LFE setting oh well guess it's just one more thing I'll have to deal with.

 

[Paul Clarke]

Now I'm really confused. Are you guys saying that there isn't ANY Subwoofer or LFE level in either the OSD or the Front Display? No Sub or LFE +/- in the Channel Adjustment table?

It say there's one in the manual, bottom right page 32. I know it doesn't show it in the pictograph...it does show up in the 510 manual pictograph however. C'mon, there has to be a way to adjust Sub-level on the fly with the 520.

 

[Chriss M]

of course there is a sub adjustment, but that really isnt the same thing as an LFE adjustment setting. Unless you are running all speakers set to "large", the sub is receiving bass info not contained in the LFE channel. So by setting the sub to +10, you would be raising both LFE and non-LFE bass by 10db's.

So what you guys are saying is that it is impossible to watch a DTS encoded track on the 520 at the proper volume? Seems like a pretty major flaw.

 

[Paul Clarke]

Chriss,
Sorry...Had another brain fart. I guess there are certain hours it just doesn't pay to read anything on this forum let alone try to give a response.

 

[Chriss M]

no problem Paul
so does anyone know which receivers/pre's DON'T suffer from this issue?

 

[Eujin]

Chriss M,

I think you should go audition a 520, if possible, and determine if the DTS issue is something you can live with by adjusting the LFE level setting. I have a 320 and discovered the issue while still within my 30-day return period. For me, adjusting the LFE level to compensate was not a problem, even running all other speakers as "small", and I've been a happy owner ever since. It might be different for you, but this issue turned out to be a minor annoyance for me (there are other things that I find far more annoying in this otherwise excellent receiver). Good luck!

 

[AntonS]

If H/K is right about all DTS decoders setting LFE at -10dB, I wonder is there a reason for that?

 

[RobP]

If H/K is right about all DTS decoders setting LFE at -10dB

I'm pretty sure HK is wrong. If I am wrong here please feel free to correct me. On my previous receiver (a kenwood VR407 I think) I never noticed the DTS bass lacking and I used the same settings for Dolby as I did for DTS. In fact on that model you had to use the same settings. But my point is I never noticed a lack of bass in DTS mode. It wasn't until I got the HK520 that I noticed a lack of bass in DTS. So I did some research and found a post about in one of the forums. I called HK and they verified it. Anyway common sense tells me there wrong. Why on Earth would DTS purposely have there LFE setting 10db below the referenced level on ALL recievers?

 

[Paul Clarke]

Here's a copy of a tip from Home Cinema Choice at this location:
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/test...nAVR3000.shtml
"HCC Practical Tip
Don't forget to calibrate both Dolby and DTS modes independently with external noise and create two sets of output levels. Run through the Dolby Digital calibration first, ensuring that the relative levels are the same, then go through the DTS material, making adjustments along the way as necessary. The easiest way to do this is with the help of The Ultimate DVD: Platinum (ASIN: 1575238470). This indispensable disc tells you about every aspect of setting up your system"
Apparently this issue has been around awhile. The Euro x000 series was the x10 series over here.

 

[Steve K.H.]

Ack, this just doesn't sound right... my low level outputs on my 520 have to be backed off on the likes of BladeII. Then again, my receiver was assembled in May, 2002.

Supposing it is right, if running at Large with LFE + L/R in DTS, wouldn't gaining the Sub output only increase the LFE signals it receives? At a cross of 60, will those LFE signals on the mains that are higher (say 80 - 100 range) be too low then?

Perhaps the solution is to run DTS with all LFE to the Sub, (i.e. not L/R + SUB) and advance the signal 10 dB.

Or as otherwise mentioned, run all speakers SMALL.

 

[Chriss M]

I think the only accurate solution would be to run all speakers set to LARGE, with the sub receiving LFE info ONLY, set to +10. With any speakers set to small, you'd be increasing both the LFE and the low frequency info of any SMALL speaker by 10db's. So now you have your LFE volume correct but any bass below the crossover point of your main speakers is now 10db's louder than everything else.

It doesn't much matter for me though since my Outlaw 950 should be arriving today to replace my 520. Still, it just seems like a pretty major issue with no real solution.

 

[Steve K.H.]

If it's a simple calibration, I'm not worried about it. At least the H/K remembers those settings.

If it isn't (and I'll find out soon as I emailed support), then it may be time to look at a Lex.
(ouch)

 

[Chriss M]

it is a simple calibration, but only if you run all your speakers LARGE. As far as i can tell, If you run any speakers SMALL, you can no longer correct the issue because the 520 has no seperate LFE channel adjustment.

i wonder what H/K's answer wil be...

 

[Josh Lowe]

No LFE channel adjustment? I see one called SUB and it's there whether my speakers are set to LARGE or SMALL. The adjustment range for the SUB channel is -5-+5 DB.

Am I looking a the wrong thing?

 

[Joe Wilmore]

So, does it seem like the best solution is to set all speakers to large, and the crossover at 60?

 

[Chriss M]

Josh

I tried to explain this a couple times above but im probably not being clear about it...let me try again

there is a difference between and LFE adjustment and a sub adjustment. A 5.1 track carries bass in two places - the dedicated LFE channel, and then bass in the 5 main channels that is sent directly to each speaker. When you set your speakers to SMALL, your receiver takes any bass that is sent to your speakers (below the crossover point) and re-routes it over to your sub. So your sub is playing both the LFE bass + the bass from your other speakers.

Now, the SUB adjustment is going to increase or decrease ALL bass being played by the sub. So, if you set your sub to +10, you will be playing the DTS LFE bass at the correct volume, but all the other bass not contained in the LFE channel will now be playing 10db's louder than it should be. Some receivers have a specific LFE adjustment, which increases or decreases ONLY the bass from the LFE channel. The 520 does not have this feature.

 

[Gregory S]

Do any of the DVD players have an LFE adjustment? If so, then the adjustment should be able to be made there.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Paul Clarke]

Chriss,

Interesting. Could you name a few current receivers that provide a separate LFE adjustment as well as SUB level?

I know my old JVC 884 had an LFE attenuator but that was used only to cut 10dB...nothing could be added over 0dB (normal) setting.