DTS LFE problem and H/K 520? (1 Viewer)

[Lewis Besze]

There are only a handful of receivers do that,and it isn't a part of either THX or DD's certifications.
Also the so called compensation only happens on those receivers when it is recorded at the default [-4 or -31dbfs] so it will bumps it back to the original level,but it won't compensate for other values.{at least what I've heard,and it's possible that the HK handles this differently]
So,as it shown on Bjoern's web page,the levels were the same after the decoding,on the analog outputs.[Lexicon MC1]

 

[Dave_Whiting]

Has they being any updates about this problem??

 

[Baldemar Garcia]

For those who may still be interested, and those that may not know, there is an old dvd that contains a test for this. It is the disc used by the overseas reviewer, and is called Ultimate DVDlatinum edition. It is hard to find in stock, but there are a few copies to be found at half.com. When my copy arrives, I'll be offering to do testing of this issue in the DFW area. I really want an AVR225 and an AVR525 later, but not if they suffer from this problem. Hope this helps, and heck, it'd be great if an AVR x25 owner already owns this disc and could run the simple test.

 

[Gary Joe]

I'm confused now. So it is or is not possible to calibrate LFE on the 520 with a test disc only. Or, is it not ajustible period?

I thought I found the reciever I wanted, especially once the price drops, but now I don't know.

 

[Baldemar Garcia]

Gary,

Strictly speaking, there is no lfe adjustment on the HK AVR520 receiver. BUT, if you set it up with large main speakers, you can dedicate the subwoofer output for LFE only. Then you can adjust for the attenuation. Make sense?

I'm curious to see if this problem is there for myself, as explained in my post above. As you noted, an AVR520 on closeout would be very nice indeed. And I'd also like to know if the problem still exists in the new line. I've seen conflicting reports about this, all coming from HK.

 

[Rick_FL]

I'm kinda confused what you mean by no LFE adjustment. Do you mean increasing the low frequency output? you set your speakers to large, then you can set your subwoofer to SUB l/r+LFE or LFE, x-over frequency to 60hz. then go to the channel adjust and then adjust the db for SUB. Any frequency of 60hz or below will have it's db increased or decreased(+-10db). That's what it does for me anyway. Maybe I'm missing something in the equation here.

 

[Ronnie Ferrell]

The only thing you are missing is there is no way to have both the sub information from the L/R AND the LFE adjusted separately. Its either all LFE adjusted with Large and LFE only. With this setting no L/R sub information is sent to the sub. Or its both LFE and L/R sub information adjusted at the same time with LFE+L/R. With this setting both L/R and LFE sub information is sent to the sub but both get the +/-10db adjustment.
EXAMPLE--There is no option to adjust the LFE +7db and the L/R sub information -4bd and have this info sent to the subwoofer.
I hope that is not more confusing!
rf

 

[Rick_FL]

nope no confusion, I gotcha. and right, its all 3 or sub.

 

[Kevin L K]

Just to add insult to injury: I have been emailing h/k support regarding bass management in general on my AVR-320 and this is getting worse and worse.Here are the emails:
ME:
First of all: Happy Thanksgiving
I have the 320 and was reading the booklet closely regarding the speaker
large/small settings and the crossover settings.
It seems that the crossover setting whether the speakers are set to large or small just affect the the main speakers(front left & right)--but not the center or surrounds.
I have all 5 of my speakers set to small, with the crossover set to 80Hz,yet the manual also states if the
speakers are capable of reproducing signals below 100Hz to set them to large.
So my question is:
Is the crossover setting of 80Hz sending signals 80Hz and below to the subwoofer from the FRONT SPEAKERS ONLY,and sending signals of 100Hz and below to the subwoofer for the CENTER AND SURROUND SPEAKERS since they are also set to small???? The manual keeps stating that the crossover should be set according the the FRONT speakers frequency capabilities so that's why I ask.
If you could give me a definitive answer I would really appreciate it.
Thanks Folks!
Kevin
h/k:
Hi Kevin,
Yes, that is correct. The crossover setting only applies to the Main Speakers and is fixed at 100Hz for other locations. Low frequency is always directed to the Main L and R channels from your other speakers when they are set to SMALL. All of the bass below 100Hz will go to the main Left and Right channels if you have selected SMALL for Center and Rear/Surround.From there you have a little more control and determine what blend of bass,if any, will go between the subwoofer and main speakers. I hope this
explains it better. Thanks for your inquiry.
Sincerely,
Harold Kevelos
ME:
Hi Harold--Happy Holidays and thanks for the reply.
I do have a question though regarding your statement:
"All of the bass below 100Hz will go to the main Left and
Right channels if you have selected SMALL for Center and Rear/Surround"
According to the 320 manual that statement is NOT correct--the manual specifically states:
"When SMALL is selected(for center),low-frequency sounds will be sent ONLY TO THE SUBWOOFER OUTPUT".
It does not state anywhere that they are sent to the mains.It states the exact same thing if the surround speakers are set to small as well. What that means is that
frequencies of 100Hz and lower are being sent to my subwoofer which is something I DO NOT WANT TO HAPPEN--It is MUCH too easy to localize where the bass
is coming from with such a high crossover point,and one of the main reasons I bought the 320 was for the bass-management.The whole reason for the email is because
the frequencies that are coming from the subwoofer are way too high to be below 80Hz--this is very misleading.I do realize the 325 has better bass-management but I don't have one.
Sorry for the bold type Harold--I wasn't yelling --I just did that to emphasize my points.Can you please clear this up for me--which is correct--you or the manual? Thanks Harold.
Sincerely,
Kevin
h/k:
Kevin,
I am sorry but the information in my previous e-mail was incorrect. The bass management features have changed quite a bit during the last few generations. There is only one high-pass crossover frequency used by the AVR320. The options for the crossover are 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz and 100Hz.
Depending on the setting of your Front speakers you will have the choice of one of these frequencies. Whichever frequency you select, that will be applied to all speakers where high-pass is applicable. This means you will have a 40Hz or 60Hz high-pass to your rear and center speakers, even if they are set to small, as long as the front
speakers are set to large. This AVR320 will simultaneously set the low-pass setting for your subwoofer to the same value. Thanks for your patience. Please let me know if you need more information.
Sincerely,
Harold Kevelos
Internet Support Specialist
ME:
Hi Harold--thanks for such quick replies
I've always told people h/k has excellent
support and you prove it!!
Having said that--
so you're saying the crossover setting is a
universal setting for ALL speakers?Why
are there settings for small/large for the
center/surrounds then?With all due respect
that makes no sense.
Why then does the manual state if center/surround
speakers are set to large NO frequencies are
redirected to the subwoofer,and ONLY a full
range signal is sent to them?It also states--very
very poorly--that the crossover affects the mains
only.Again,is the manual wrong or is it correct?
I can assure you,when my main speakers are set
to large,and the crossover is set to 60Hz,there is
NO WAY I'm getting 60Hz signals out of my
center/surrounds.
PLEASE don't take this the wrong way Harold,
but can you please check with one of the engineers,
and make sure your statement regarding the crossover
being universal for ALL speakers--regardless of
what the center/surrounds are set to is correct?
Thanks for helping me with this Harold-have a great
weekend.
Kevin
This is just driving me crazy :frowning: :frowning:
Sorry if this is off topic for this thread--i will be posting this as a seperate thread.Thanks.

 

[Rick_FL]

kevin, what is the frequency range of all your speakers?

the settings for speakers size correlate to the x-over frequency. Example, if your speakers go as low as 50hz, x-over would be set to 60hz, speakers set to large. for DD, I set fronts to large, center to small, surrounds to large, sub l/r+lfe, and I can tell you now that no low/LOW frequency are being sent to the center or surround. My sub goes down to a much lower frequency than my L/R, therefore those really thunder low sounds are played thru the sub

 

[Kevin L K]

Hi Rick. My mains go down to 69Hz,and the center & surrounds go down to 80Hz--all +/- 3dbs(Ascend Acoustic speakers),so I set all my speakers to small,with the crossover set to 80Hz,and sub is set to "on".When small is selected for the mains the 320 does not give you a a choice of LFE or LFE+L/R for the sub-or even on or off,the only choice is "on".The "LFE" or "LFE+L/R" settings are only available if mains are set to large.That is my whole point--I have been using h/k receivers for a while now and always thought the crossover setting was a "universal" setting meaning if all speakers are set to small and crossover set to 80Hz,then ALL speakers are high-passed at 80Hz,"and if all speakers are set to large,then ALL speakers receive a full-range signal,and the subwoofer will be low-passed at either 60Hz or 40Hz,and you can set the sub to LFE or LFE+L/R"---the part in quotations is taken straight from the 320's manual.That's why I emailed them--when I read between the lines I realized instead of my center/surrounds being high-passed at 80Hz like the mains were,they were actually being high-passed at 100Hz,because per the manual,the crossover ONLY applies to the mains,and NOT to the center/surrounds:
"For each of these settings use the LARGE setting if the speakers for a particular position are traditional full-range loudspeakers that are capable of reproducing sounds below 100Hz. Use the SMALL setting for smaller, frequency limited satellite speakers that do not reproduce sounds below 100Hz"
...so,even though the center/surrounds are set to small just like the mains are,when the crossover is set to 80Hz--it only applies to the mains,and the center/surrounds are high-passed at 100Hz.Everything below that was being sent to the sub which I did NOT want--I want the center & surrounds to go down to 80Hz as well--just as the mains are.If you are using a h/k x20 receiver,with your setup-according to the manual:
Your mains and surrounds are being fed a FULL RANGE signal,your sub is being low-passed at either 60Hz or 40Hz--whichever you have chosen-and your center is being high-passed at 100Hz.
Yikes!! This stuff is giving me a freaking head-ache--I think I'll take a rest now

 

[Rick_FL]

well, as you know, receivers sometimes work better with different speakers. Some combinations completely rock, some are just satisfactory.
for DD, I set front to LARGE, center to small, rear to LARGE, 60hz x-over. frequency response on my L/R goes as low as 50hz, the surrounds as low as 80hz. I set SUB to L/R+LFE, and then raise the db for SUB. My rear speakers do not get a boost for the lower frequencies eventhough are set to large. The L/R and SUB put out a majority of the bass, the sub putting out the lowest of the sounds, around 35-40hz if necessary. Also, my sub has both volume and frequency adjustment. I've just experimented with settings til I found one that worked for me, even if that means completely ignoring the manual. For DTS I set all speakers to LARGE. I assume you use EZSet to let the receiver set the sound levels? It really does work. I think I may just be babbling and not really helping you, :frowning:

 

[Kevin L K]

Actually Rick I do not use the EZSet,I use a SPL meter.It's been more accurate(even though the EZSet is fairly accurate)for my listening environment compared to the EZSet.

Which h/k receiver do you have?

 

[Rick_FL]

AVR320

 

[Gary Joe]

I wonder if the Onkyo SR600 would have this (LFE calibration)
problem. It is another reciever I'm strongly considering buying.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Kevin,
IMO, based on my experience,it's better to high pass speakers,an octave above their actual low end limits,for more seamless blending with a sub.Also manufacturer's specs are rarely reliable to determine this,not to mention of the room induced frequency problems,that's unique to every room.
I'm not sure if you experimented with a sub yet[location],but it is essential to achieve satisfactory results.The BM features are minuscule compare to the influence of the room has on a sub.
My center and surrounds are both high passed at 100hz but you would be hard pressed to localize the sub.
The Dolby trailer called "Egypt" is a very good way to see if your sub is "giving away" it's position.
It's on Delos's DVD Spectacular,or Dolby's the "We've got the whole world listening".