Does the Panasonic do DTS-ES discrete, matrix, or both?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ryan DC, Aug 15, 2002.

  1. Ryan DC

    Ryan DC Agent

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    Hi everyone,

    I have been considering this receiver (SA-HE200) for both music listening and movies (50/50). I have seen the specs on crutchfield's website and it says it does DTS-ES but other than that it doesn't mention if it's dts-es DISCRETE, dts-es MATRIX or does both. I was wondering if any of you have this receiver or have heard from somewhere that it does decode these modes? Someone mentioned about the pioneer 811s which seems to have the same features that it has a distributed mono-block amp? what does this mean? Does the panasonic possibly have this same amp design also? I have e-mailed panasonic about it but I only got an automated response from them : . Any of your guys input would be appreciated greatly! thanks
     
  2. Jeff_Blanch

    Jeff_Blanch Agent

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    Ryan, crutchfield is usually a good source of information on equipment, but they don't have very good info on the Panasonic receivers. Which one are you looking at? The HE100 or HE200? They both have the same decoding capabilities as far as the different formats go. The only diference is that the HE200 has a licensed version of DD-EX and the HE100 has a capable 6.1 decoder but is not licensed. They both are DTS-ES capable, but no distinction is made between matrix and discrete, so I would assume that it is capable of both. A better source for the panasonic info is:
    http://www.video-direct.com/panasonic.html
    As far as the amp is concerned, I'm not sure what they mean by a distributed mono block, but the Panasonic is advertised to have a Class H+ amp. A description of a class H amp can be found here, although I'm not sure what the "+" is supposed to signify:
    http://www.win.net/audtatious/audio/ampclass.html
    Jeff
     
  3. Ryan DC

    Ryan DC Agent

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    Jeff, Thank you for your quick reply! I'm sorry about not posting which receiver it was in the main topic bar but I have edited my post to which one it is, the SA-HE200. I plan on purchasing the panasonic at the link you have provided since they're only asking under $400 shipped! Way better deal than any local retailers which want from $479 to $500. Do you have this receiver? If so how does it sound to you?
    Before considering the panasonic I was looking at the Sony 5ES but i don't really feel like spending that much money. So I'm willing to get the panasonic if it does decode both formats and sounds good.

    Thanks again for your help and providing some informative links!
     
  4. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    I asked Panasonic this question at dealer training a couple of months ago. The answer was that it does both because you can't implement one without the other. I questioned the guy on this at the time, but he insisted that he knew what he was talking about.

    Without any indicator lights for this, I guess there's really no way of knowing for sure.
     
  5. Ryan DC

    Ryan DC Agent

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    Hi Johnny

    I went to your web site and I saw that you carry the new panasonics and was wondering what your personal opinion was of the sa-he200? Would there be any chance in finding out if it does by disconnecting certain surround speakers?

    Appreciate what you have told me about the pan. rep. said and your thought on this.
     
  6. DanielM

    DanielM Stunt Coordinator

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    in case youre interested I have this receiver..its damn good for the $$$
     
  7. Jeff_Blanch

    Jeff_Blanch Agent

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    Ryan, I don't own the Panasonic, but it is very high on my list of potential purchases. I have been trying to find out as much info on them as possible before I jump in. I wish I could find one of these locally, but I live about an hour to an hour and a half away from any major town that may have this receiver so it isn't the easiest to go and find one to look at.

    To those who have access to or own this receiver, I have a question. From a very small and grainy photo of the back panel, it looks like the HE200 has preouts for the Front L/R speakers. Is this true? Could anyone take a good picture of the back panel or scan a page from the owner's manual for me?

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  8. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Ryan, I haven't received any HE200's yet so I have no experience with it. I am quite impressed with the incredible price/performance of the HE100 though, so I doubt the HE200 will dissapoint.

    As for testing DTS matrix/discrete, I don't think hooking/unhooking speakers would help figure it out. Matrix works in a manner very similar to Dolby Pro-Logic. Sounds that are the same in both rear speakers are extracted from the rear left/right and sent to the rear center. With Discrete, there's a specific 6th channel and the decoder sends this to the rear center channel and extracts that same information from the left/right (which still has the exact same information as a Matrix version would). I doubt the end result is all that different.
     
  9. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Spoke too soon! I just got a shipment of HE200's and I should have some time to play with one this weekend. I might even take one home to compare with my Harman/Kardon AVR320.
     
  10. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Here's a scan of the back panel. The file size is bigger than I would have liked, but it's the best I could do.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Jeff_Blanch

    Jeff_Blanch Agent

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    Thanks for the scan Johnny, It is just what I was looking for. This is really interesting. The preouts are for surround back left and right. That would make it a 7.1 system if hooked up to an external amp. The question is, does the HE200 actually process in 7.1, or are those two preouts sending out the same signal so you can have 7 speakers like the Pioneer 811? This might be a question for the Panasonic rep.

    Jeff
     
  12. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi John G.
    Very nice to post a full rear view!
    Very interested in your comparision of the 200 to the H/K320 in sound quailty! Please let us know what speakers your running the 2 receivers threw....
    I feel in advance of your hopefully complete comparision, that it will perform well power wise no question.
    Most curious as to it's sound, (IE)~bright, warm, laid back, soild bass or maybe on the thin side, etc.
    Of course your speaks will have a bearing on this point but with both running threw the same speaker set up, your take is very much antisapaited by more than a few of us!
    Anything you can provide on the units overall performance will be very much apreciated..... Fit, finish, build, sound, power, video pass threw, ease of use, remote, ease of set-up, etc!!!
    It's so new, and says PANASONIC on the front of it that few 200's are out their in use and this type of user info is far and few.
    Hope you can find time to drag one home and push it to it's limits....[​IMG]
    Regards
    Geof
     
  13. Ryan DC

    Ryan DC Agent

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    Thanks for posting that picture JohnnyG. I Would also like to know what your thoughts are on this receiver when you listen to it this weekend. I have gotten a response to my e-mail from panasonic and they said that "The SA-HE200 is a DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 decoder with Matrix 6.1." So far I have been trying to decide whether to get one of these 3 receivers. The panasonic 200, sony 5es, or the 4es. Let us know what you think of the panasonic Johnny if you get a chance and thanks again to all of you who have replied!
     
  14. Joe_B_M

    Joe_B_M Extra

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    I'm also seriously considering this receiver, so I anxiously await any info on it. It sure seems like a lot of bang for the buck, especially since you can get one through videodirect, an authorized dealer, for about $375 delivered. It sure is very clean looking, I'm definitely leaning this way.

    Johnny please post your impressions as others have requested, thanks.
     
  15. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Well, I did take one home on Friday and had it up and working in no time. Unfortunately, I forgot to bring my SPL meter and AVIA home, so I wasn't able to fully tweak the system. I did, however, have the H/K EZset remote, so I used it's SPL meter to do an initial set-up. It didn't pick up the sub frequencies though, so I had to do that by ear.
    The rest of my gear consists of a Panasonic DVD-CP67 progressive-scan 5-disc changer, a Panasonic PT-AE100 LCD front projector, Infinity IL60 powered towers (500-watt 10" sub in each), an IL36c center channel and a pair of older Infinity Reference 4's in the rear. I don't have a center-rear at this time.
    My first (and one of only a few) gripes is with the remote. It's actually quite functional, but it's terribly ugly once you remove the sliding door that covers most of the really important buttons!
    Unfortunately, I had a rather busy weekend, so I didn't get to spend much time actually listening to it. It definitely has plenty of power and the sound quality doesn't deteriorate as you get up to ear bleeding levels. The sound, as compared to the H/K AVR320, is a bit on the bright side and I ended up taking the treble control down to -3 which smoothed things out nicely. I've heard others complain that the Infinity's are bright sounding speakers, so perhaps the H/K is just particularly mellow. Mind you, I was listening to Nelly Furtado, so maybe it's just her voice [​IMG] I had no complaints with the midrange or the bass but that's with the powered subs and a very limited selection of material
    The one thing that really stands out in my mind is how lousy my mixed MP3 disc sounded! The Re-Mastering function made a noticeable improvement in sound quality, but many tracks still sounded rather grainy. Is this the result of cleaner, more powerful amplification or lousy DACs? The truth is, the MP3's sounded like I always thought MP3's should sound! One song in particular made me cringe, yet I don't recall having noticed the poor sound quality at all with the H/K.
    I haven't had time to even test a DVD, so that will have to wait for a follow up report.
    A couple of other points: I noticed no signal degradation running HD through the unit; the inputs have an Analog/Digital/Auto setting and the Auto setting is just the ticket for my 3100HD cable box (there's no digital audio on the analog channels); I already miss the Zone II output of the H/K but this unit costs 40% less, so what do you expect?!; It looks real nice - classy - not cheap looking at all (it looks smashing with the CP67).
    More later!
     
  16. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Excellent John
    I certainly wait for more on your impressions!
    What DAC's dose it use? Not the b-rate but Brand-type, might you know??
    What color unit did you bring home?
    How's the "fit and finish" as you did make the point that it is a looker???
    Any way could listen to it "without" your built in powered subs running, while doing 2-channel???
    The preouts are their for the "Rears", is this TRUE or just what dose it have for preouts if any??
    Tuff for me to see clearly in your rear pic, on my junk monitior....[​IMG]
    I appoligize for the constant pounding of questions but this unit is of great intrest to many, my brother and I included for a new bedroom Receiver upgrade!!!
    Thanks for the quick review and it's very much welcomed, looking forward to more of your take if and when possible.
    Best Regards
    Geoff
    Edit:
    My biggest intrests is in the units SOUND compared to your H/K. You did touch on this a little, but give us more.
    You made the point bright or brighter than the H/K but is it still smoothe or more to the harsh side?
    And dose this get worse with volume, assumeing you not over-driving the Receivers Amps or your speakers?
    Dose the bass sound some what thin like 811S Pioneer in 2-channel, when using perferably tower speakers with NO SUB?
    Again, John sorry to be pounding away at you for info but give us more please. Also *anyone* running the 200 please give us your take and what speaks your running with it!!!!
    Geoff
     
  17. Mike Nelms

    Mike Nelms Extra

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    Yes please keep this one rolling... I am seriously looking at this receiver to go with my Panasonic DVD-CP67 progressive-scan 5-disc changer and Panasonic PT-47WX52. A little off subject...what speakers does anyone recommend? Small living room set up in a house.
    Thanks!
    Mike
    Saint Louis, MO[​IMG]
     
  18. DanielM

    DanielM Stunt Coordinator

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    I have had this receiver for about a month now..I have noticed no harshness in my setup ( all optimus with the linaeum ribbon tweeter )my system can get prety loud over 100db so whatever that means
    there are several pros and cons
    Pro: very good to great sound,CHEAP,looks very nice especially the silver,high bandwith componet vid switching,
    192/24 dac,its a panasonic

    CONS:remote is lame!!,no preouts for anything except rear center, the ergonomics could be way better,its a panasonic,
    it needs some space as it gets very warm

    all in all after comparing features of like priced receivers there was no other choice for me
    pioneer 811: no phono input and did not sound as good
    harman/karden: no phono input similiar sound
    denon 1802: the panasonic just sounded beter
    Onkyo:did not even bother with
     
  19. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Daniel

    Quote:
    "denon 1802: the panasonic just sounded beter"

    This I find a bit surprising, not shocking BUT very interesting!!!
    ========>
    Daniel, could you elaborate specificaly on the Denon/Panasonic demo situation & the other receivers if possible?
    ========>
    Was the Panasonic-200 & Denon-1802 compared in the ~{same room on the same speaks}~ ????
    ========>
    The remote thing dose suck from what I hear and you and John seem to confirm that. This is not an issue for me as an after market unit will be used.

    Glad to hear that no harshness comes with the said brightness even at higher spl levels "(you did not comment on this brightness issue)" and your take on this coming with you using ribbion tweets that are known to be somewhat sensitive to this.

    Thanks for "your" take of pros and cons on the 200 Daniel, it's very appreciated.

    Regards
    Geoff

    Edit:
    Hows the fan noise as they do run full time???? Do you find it loud and distracting, John or Daniel???
     
  20. DanielM

    DanielM Stunt Coordinator

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