Do most receivers cut out sub in "LARGE" mode?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeff Adams, Dec 6, 2001.

  1. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    I have noticed on the Marantz line of receivers that the subwoofer is bypassed if you select large mode for your front speakers. Why is that? Shouldn't you have the choice of whether or not you want your sub on? Does anyone know if that is the case with the new Marantz SR-9200?
     
  2. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Not sure on the new line, but I have the SR5000 and it does not bypass the sub. I have all my speakers set to large with sub to on. Works just fine.
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  3. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Ron, how do you have your sub hooked up? Do you have it hooked up with a coax strait from your receiver to the sub or do you use the speaker line levels? And if you can select large and still have the sub active how come I cannot? I have the sr-7000 so I figure it should be very close to your model. Do I have my sub hooked up wrong? The only way I can use my sub is with everything in small mode.
     
  4. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    I have a coax cable running right off the receiver directly to the sub and then I have a spliter for the L and R input on the sub. Using the speaker selector button on the front panel I can change everything to large and set the sub to on. Not sure as to why you would not be able to do this.
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  5. Brian Schucher

    Brian Schucher Supporting Actor

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    I have the 7000 and even when i set my mains to large I can have the Sub output on. In the speaker setup section it asks you large or small for all and Sub yes or no..
     
  6. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Supporting Actor

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    There are 2 different issues. In 5.1 setting the mains to large and sub to on will result in the LFE channel going to the subs. In stereo music with the same settings, the sub won't work(at least this is true on the Onkyo 989). There are some processors that let you use large and sub with a 40 Hz crossover to the sub.
     
  7. Bill Leber

    Bill Leber Stunt Coordinator

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    My Onkyo 575x sends a signal to the sub with my mains set to large. For 2-channel I either turn off the sub or dial it back to 60Hz.

    It's kind of a pain when switching between 5.1 and 2ch music DVDs.
     
  8. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    I have not tried the large setting with a sub for dd or dts 5.1, I have only tried it for stereo playback and I don't know what Ron and Brian are doing to get the sub to work with mains in large but it is not working for me. I go to the setup menu choose large for mains and it automatically switches sub to no.
     
  9. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    I just tested my SR5000 in 2-channel stereo. In the set-up menu it gives me the option of turning the sub "on" or "off".
    Not sure why yours defalts to "off" with the sub. Maybe try contacting Marantz.
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  10. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Ron,Maybe it is a problem with my receiver. It's wierd, when I select large it still says subwoofer yes, but the sub is not on, then when I go back into my set up menu it says sub no. I am selling the 7000 anyway and getting the 9200 soon, hopefully it works right with my new unit.
     
  11. Pete Jennings

    Pete Jennings Second Unit

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    Jeff, if you'll go to DIRECT mode for your two channel stuff, the x200 series receivers will automatically set the mains to LARGE and the sub to ON.
    I don't have a sub at the moment to test it on my 8200, [​IMG] but the manual for the 7200 AND the 8200 receivers state this.
    Good luck!
    Pete
     
  12. Rich_B

    Rich_B Extra

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    What you describe can be a frustrating experience. In stereo playback, many receivers do not send low frequencies to the subwoofer when the L/R setting is 'large'.
    In general, if you are a 'critical listener' in stereo you would not want a subwoofer playing anyhow. But for a lot of people (myself included) the extra bass is welcome.
    I chose my receiver partially on it's capability to send low frequencies to both the sub and 'large' front speakers. You may be stuck with one that does not have that capability.
    On my receiver there is a sub choice between YES, NO, and PLUS. ONLY in the PLUS setting does it send frequencies to BOTH in stereo mode. The YES setting does not send anything to the sub in stereo mode.
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  14. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Lewis. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Maybe you posted a little too late at night and your thoughts got crossed.

    Anyway, I think what Rich was saying was in GENERAL people with "full range" speakers that perform well(not just reach) down to 40HZ usually prefer to listen to music without a sub. I don't think he said at any time that this was the rule.

    As far as getting a better sub goes, one could reply to that statement with get a better pair of mains.

    I agree with you that it's all a matter of taste but I will add that IMO, anyone that is "critical" about listening to 'WELL' (traditional or modern non digital Jazz and classical)recorded music can't possibly be serious if they have a sub in the first place or if they do, they have an inferior HT or audio/HT hybrid sub.

    If your sub has a port then it will fall short when listening to traditional and classical music. Traditional Jazz and some classical can be very fast and subs with ports for the most part perform too slow. Maybe on some Rock music and heavy bassed Pop music a ported sub may do justice but on the multi dimensional ultra quick compositions ported subs don't do their best work.

    Pop music or modern jazz (digital) does not fall into "MY" category of music worthy of "critical" listening although I'm sure some can point out some popular artist worthy of critical listening like D. Krall and Sarah Mc etc...

    Although some choose to listen to this type of music "critically" that's on them and their perogative.
     
  15. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  16. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Thanks Pete, when I get my 9200 I will try it out. And as far as critical listening goes. My music taste is very large. I like everything from Mozart, Miles Davis, Steely Dan and Acoustic Alchemy to Metallica,Primus and Red Hot Chili Peppers. It depends on what mood I am in whether or not I want to listen to music with my sub on. I would just like the choice between no sub or sub on with my mains in large. I am really looking forward to getting my new SR-9200 hopefully this gives me alot more options.
     
  17. Rich_B

    Rich_B Extra

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    Oops :b , I didn't mean to start a sub/no-sub debate in this topic. Sorry all. Maybe I'll post a new heading though, sounds like it could be interesting.
     
  18. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Since you are asking about receivers and "Bass Management", I thought I would mention about Yamaha receivers.
    (I'll likely get this wrong so hummor me [​IMG] )
    Telling a receiver you have a sub gurantees the sub will see the ".1" channel in almost all DD receivers. It does not matter if the speakers are LARGE or SMALL.
    Many receivers will take the lower-frequency from any SMALL speaker and route it to the LFE port.
    Yamaha has a LFE setting that you can set to main, sub, main, or "BOTH". It seems like it will follow the above rules for the LFE port, but you can optionally route the LFE signal to the LARGE mains, the SUB or BOTH.
    It IS a little confusing, but it does answer your question that NO, all receivers do not cut out the sub if a speaker is LARGE.
     
  19. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Lewis.

    " Hi Lewis. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Maybe you posted a little too late at night and your thoughts got crossed."

    First off, I knew I should have put the smiley face on the end of that statement because without it, the tone of sounds totaly different than what I meant to say and does give it a personal tone. So for sounding offensive, I apologize.

    I said

    "Anyway, I think what Rich was saying was in GENERAL people with "full range" speakers that perform well(not just reach) down to 40HZ usually prefer to listen to music without a sub. I don't think he said at any time that this was the rule."

    Lewis as you can see, I never said that using a sub with music was an absolute no no. As you can see I used the words "GENERAL" and "USUALLY". If you go back and see how I used those words in my statement, you might see that I never said that this was the absolute rule.

    Some how you came to think that I said it was the rule and a sweeping broad statement.

    You said

    "While there are quiet a few bad subs out there,that aren't even good for being used as an end table,there are more and more subs that do bass well and better then many full range speakers."

    I agree but I would like to ask you a question for the sake of enlightenment. If you had to answer this question how would you answer it?

    If someone asked you, generally what type of sub enclosure yeilds the best response for musical applications what would you say if it were a two answer multiple choice question?

    These are your choices

    a) Sealed

    b) Ported

    One million dollars rides on this baby Lewis. What do you think the answer would be?

    You said

    "There is also another element to this,room acoustics.

    Obviously that affects "full range" speakers as well,but unlike on subs[especially DIY or passive ones],you can't fix any room anomolies on the main speakres as easily as on the subs.

    Also if you're not familiar with your own room accoustics,and set main speakers large,with the sub in conjunction,you might get bloated bass or some phase cancellations at certain frequencies,making the bass sound less then satisfactory,however in most cases the sub gets blaimed for it without even try to understand the reason behind this."

    I totally agree with that statement. Also, I am familiar with my room acoustics which led me to build my own bass traps and sound panels. They actually work pretty well and I whole heartedly recommend them to anyone with the space and freedom of room design.

    You said

    "Can you point me to the data that proves this?

    I know that the box design can affect group delays,and speed of the rolloff below the tuning point.

    The woofer will move 40 times/s @40hz,but other factors can contribute for over hangs and other sorts of problems,which can be percived as "slow" bass."

    Unfortunately, I don't have the scientific data to prove that a ported sub won't do classical music well. However, I can show you tons of opinion based documentation along with my opinion that when comparing a ported and non ported subs the ported subs are generally slower and don't do music as well as sealed subs. If you noticed, I never singled out all subs as being not up to snuff.

    My opinion is that if you have main speakers that are capable of performing well into the 40HZ region then why do you need a sub? My mains are doing the job that I would normally get a sealed sub to do. In my room size which is 11x14x8,(not a large room by any measure) my mains easily fill up the room with rich bass.

    You said

    "Unless you have heard all ported subs you can't make that blanket statement.I know that many people share you opinion on this,I'm not."

    Gee, I wonder why? However, I do admire the way that you stick to your guns.

    You said

    "BTW I'm a jazz fan both modern and traditional,and classical fan as well,and my two subs are always on.2 DIY PR designs 15",and togheter they sound way better then my main towers alone,and it isn't by accident or luck either."

    I can't dispute your personal findings sir nor will I try. All I can say is that I'm happy that you're happy with your personal findings regarding the performance of your subs and that they actually help the sound of your mains.

    Until next time.....
     
  20. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Hi Martice. [​IMG]
     

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