Diminishing returns on Subwoofer Design?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dan_Gtp, Dec 7, 2002.

  1. Dan_Gtp

    Dan_Gtp Extra

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello,
    This is in regards to the new breed of super subs with their 2" or so p-p excursion. Specifically the Tumult. I know more about Adire drivers than the other respected companies. This is also a bit early, in that it looks like many havn't recieved their Tumults yet. I definately look forward to ppl's opinions. Though seeing the graphs on the drop in replacements, for say their Tempests, its not that impressive. Yes I realise the Tumult will have more power, and as a bonus require a smaller box. Even though this driver excites me, I cant imagine replacing my Tempest with a $790 CAN driver, + shelling out for a suitable amp to power it. This is no nock at Adire, like I said the Tumult impresses me, it even stacks up well and bests most Extreme SPL car audio subs.
    What I'm basicaly getting at is with about double the output in displacement, 5.1L or so compared to about 2.5L for the Tempest, I was hoping for bigger numbers. We dont exactly need 140db in our houses to watch movies, but an effortless loud demo of LOTR without worry of destroying our beloved DIY subs would be wonderfull. Sorry if I am premature in not being impressed by the early numbers on the Tumult, it just seems that companies are getting diminishing returns on increasing their Xmax to these insanely impressive numbers. Which is what seems to be the key in SPL, swept volume kinda displacement. Definately prove me wrong and set me straight, thats why I'm asking the smart guys and gals. [​IMG]
    I love my missle silo of a Tempest Sonosub, just curious whats in store with the future drivers. Thanks for reading.
    Dan
     
  2. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    0
    The object for most of us is to get to, or close to, reference level in our HTs. The problem has always been, for the most part, size. With the Tumult and lots of power in a relatively small enclosure, loads of clean output are possible. Cheap, no. Good value, depends on your needs and wants. Bottom line, it'll do what no other (so far) single driver can do. It always costs a little more to be on the edge of technology.

    Pete
     
  3. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see the problem from a different standpoint. I pursue DIY because, for the most part, I'm a cheapskate. [​IMG] I can't bring myself to spend more than, say, 1/4th of what I'd spend on a commercial design. Once I find an adequate, cheap driver, I cling to it like a leech on Roseanne Barr's cheek (hope Ms. Barr isn't reading [​IMG]).
    So the Tumult doesn't make sense to me. At all. But the Tempest does. I can buy one Tempest, build it, love it, and if I like it too much, build another identical one and increase my output by 3dB without the need for a huge monoblock monster.
    I'm sure many people will love the Tumult's specs, but for me, it's too expensive to consider [​IMG] Who knows, maybe I'll build it someday, but not for now. STILL, I applaud Adire's decision to build it, since I'm sure many, many people were expecting such a design from them.
     
  4. KurtJ

    KurtJ Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ilike the Tumult. I had been considering a tempest adire alignmnet, but since the tumult will require a much smaller enclosure, the WAF factor goes way up. Yes, it will require much more power (probably 1KW)[​IMG].
     
  5. DIY isn't always about cheap. It is usually about getting what you want (as opposed to what the stores offer) and a price point that would easily rival the stores.

    a pair of tumults=$1000 (non-pre-order)
    crown K1 x2= $2000
    Custumn 1"thick aluminum enclosure=$2000 (atleast that is what I could build it for)
    Shipping of goods=$300
    Total=approx $5,300

    Krell MRS=$28,000
     
  6. Mark Fitzsimmons

    Mark Fitzsimmons Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know where you are coming from. Out of curiosity I modeled how a Tumult would perform if I dropped it into my current Tempest enclosure and used the same amp. There really wasn't much of a difference.
     
  7. Mark Fitzsimmons

    Mark Fitzsimmons Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regardless, it seems that any difference will not be warranted by the cost of the Tumult, esp. when driven by 250w.

    My next project will probably be a Shiva in like a 15" cube for my college dorm.
     
  8. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yea, the Tumult was designed around using a lot of power in a smallish enclosure. 250 watts won't budge a Tumult. Of course, if you want an easy upgrade path, build a Tumult design and add power later on.

    Pete
     
  9. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Powering a Tumult with a 250W plate amp would be akin to running your average unleaded fuel in a Formula 1 race car. The two just don't make sense.
     
  10. KurtJ

    KurtJ Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where can I find a plate amp to power a Tumult? How much power will i need?
     
  11. Dan_Gtp

    Dan_Gtp Extra

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok theres definately some good points here, and Anthony brought up one I hadnt thought of at the time. I was limiting my top of the line ceiling mentally to companies like, say, SVS. Anthony brings up the other companies like Krell with product pricing that would be insane to most of us. Seeing that Anthony is capable of making a $5300 dual Tumult design that would compete with a Krell MRS brings me back to impressiveness of DIY. Great Point.
    I definately await reading a post of someones Tumult project. For example, seeing a somewhat small cube housing a Tumult and dual 18 PR's (thats whats recommended correct?), correctly powered that puts a Tempest to shame will obviously be impressive. Again, I am impressed with the Tumult specs wise, but like the subject says, it seems companies are getting diminishing returns on their designs. That now seems only true if you dont look at the whole picture. On the subject of cost, like Pete said, it always costs a bit more to have the leading technology.
    Anyone ready to drop a Tumult into their already made optimal enclsure? How soon can I read the results?
    [​IMG]
    Dan
     
  12. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 1999
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a 24" cube built and the Tumult and dual Stryke Pr's already paid for.. Bob, the Canadian dealer for Adire is going down to the States this week to pick up the Tumults [​IMG] I am awaiting my dual Stryke Pr's (pre-weighted by John J) from Stryke.. I assume next week will be the week it all comes together.. Ive had Shiva/Tempest/BPD 1803 so I will be able to make a comparison for you.. [​IMG] CANT WAIT!
    Craig
     

Share This Page