*Dark Side of the Moon* on SACD! (1 Viewer)

[Lee Scoggins]

If this news is really true, Pink Floyd just screwed themselves out of extra income and most "Pinkies" will never get to hear DSOTM in surround sound.

What a glass is half full approach Lance.

News flash...Super Audio IS multi-channel. Just spend $200 and get a SACD player...

How many Pinkies own DVDA capable DVD players?

If Sony is paying for part of the production costs, would that not leave more for the artists?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Where's your DIVX now

Are you kidding me?

DIVX is not comparable at all to DSD. For one thing, it was supported by only one store and dreamed up by a law firm. The thing that killed it was the consumer unfriendly nature of having to tap into a network to get permission to watch your movie.

Don't confuse a $100 million+ loss by Circuit City with a billion dollar investment by Sony & Philips and most major record labels and engineering studios. Also, DIVX never got the market share that even SACD has now.

 

[Al B. C]

Yeah that dual production cost would matter if we were talking about "Chipmunk Punk", but this is an album that was on the charts for 10 years!

I hardly think that production cost would be a factor, most likely it's Sony's checkbook.

 

[KeithH]

In my opinion, audiorevolution.com has always shown a bias towards DVD-Audio.
Frankly, I am glad to see Dark Side of the Moon coming to a high-resolution format. I don't care if it's released on SACD or DVD-Audio, just as long as it is released on at least one of them. If it's released on both, so much the better.

 

[Mike Broadman]

The Sony 09.02 SACD catalog shows John Coltrane Blue Train.

Ah, yes, I remember this now.
While I welcome Blue Train on SACD of course, I would have preferred a different title because there already is a DAD. 'Trane's best (IMO) music was recorded for the Impulse! label, which is owned by Universal. This is why A Love Supreme is on SACD. In my dream world, they would release stuff like Crescent, Village Vanguard, or the album he did with Ellington.

A fella can dream, can't he?

 

[Justin Lane]

How many Pinkies own DVDA capable DVD players?

Come on Lee, we went over this in depth earlier. Anyone who owns a DVD player, be it DVD-V, DVD-A, or SACD will be able to get Pink Floyd in multichannel on a DVD-A. It would not be Hi-res in the case of DVD-A/SACD players, but it would still be multichannel. By going SACD, and by not including Parsons in on the multichannel mix, it is telling me that multichannel was not not the driving force, and we may end up being disappointed with the final product from a multichannel standpoint. The stereo track should be excellent however.

Now if this disc is not a Hybrid, it will make no sense though. That will mean they will still do a redbook CD along with the SACD, giving us two releases on the market. Once you throw out the possibilities of a Hybrid, it would make more sense to me just do a redbook CD and DVD-A for maximum multichannel exposure. Of course multichannel may not be a priority, but we shall see. Until official announcements are made, I am not going to speculate too much.

J

 

[Justin Lane]

Another interesting thing to see if this is indeed released as a Hybrid, will be how they market the disc. That cover Keith posted it obviously a mock up, but will this be a "stealth" SACD or will there be a full blown marketing campaign and proper packaging designations. Seeing Sony is supposedly fianancing this entire project, you would think they would not hide the SACD aspect of the disc, but with them you never know.

J

 

[KeithH]

Justin, no question that is a mock-up cover. It was posted on audiorevolution.com. I doubt the SACD logo would be that large, if it were to appear on the cover in the first place. Also, it looks like they used the cover for the old Capitol CD for the mock-up, as the current remaster does not have "PINK FLOYD THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON" in the circle.
Since this SACD will be sold by Universal, I expect it to state SACD capability all over the packaging, as opposed to being a "stealth SACD" like the Stones discs. We shall see.
This probably won't happen, but wouldn't it be great if the SACD had the original Quad mix in DSD in addition to stereo and 5.1 SACD mixes? I know this won't happen because I have never seen an SACD with more than one multi-channel track. Perhaps a two-disc set is in order.

 

[Brian-W]

ah hell, while Pink Floyd is exciting, I nearly pee'd my pants when I saw Norah Jones mentioned. By far, my new favorite artist this year.
Bring it on

 

[Michael_T]

Since this SACD will be sold by Universal, I expect it to state SACD capability all over the packaging, as opposed to being a "stealth SACD" like the Stones discs. We shall see.

Keith,
If I am not mistaken Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon" is a Capitol/EMI product so it will not be sold by Universal.
This is what makes the news of a Pink Floyd SACD more fantastic, since, so far, EMI in the US has only marketed DVD-A. But Blue Note is also an EMI subsidiary and they are releasing SACD. So I assume that even though EMI has stated that DVD-A is their format of choice - the corporate entity which is EMI hasn't ruled out releasing SACD in the US.
I would hope for a hybrid disc, so that means they can release one disc instead of two (a single layer SACD and a regular redbook release), but my gut feeling is that if this is released on SACD it may just be a single layer disc.
Look at Universal - even though they have indicated that they were going to release hybrid SACDs, the majority of their releases have been single layer stereo or stereo/MCH (with the exception being hybrid).
I think the whole hi-rez issue has to work itself out in the marketplace more fully before all of us early adopters will know what to expect in the future. Again, my gut reaction is that I really think that SACD and DVD-A will be niche formats that will flounder for a couple of years before settling down - where they will either disappear entirely or be replaced by the "next best thing". As many have argued - the redbook CD seems to suit the general public fine - it is the issue of "illegal" copying that is fueling the record companies to find a more secure format. But will the general public bite? I really have doubts.
As much as the zealots on certain forums might argue( )
I have my doubts that SACD or DVD-A will ever become what we truly want it to become since I don't believe the marketplace is ripe for the replacement of the redbook CD just yet. And even if all CD become hybrid SACD - if there isn't enough market penetration with regard to the SACD hardware - what impetus is there to abandon redbook CD in favor of SACD hybrids (which still have a redbook CD layer that can be burned to CD-R, etc.)?
Being a realist, even though I own both DVD-A and SACD hardware, I fear the worst but hope for the best when it comes to hi-rez digital.

 

[KeithH]

Michael, you are right. I messed up with the label affiliations. EMI/Capitol and Universal are separate. If they were together, we might already have the Beatles on SACD.

 

[DennisK]

I'd be very disappointed if DSOTM was not released on DVD-A. I was really looking forward to the graphical treatment they would use on the DVD-A. I've heard that SACD is capable of graphics but I've yet to see it.

Dennis

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Another interesting thing to see if this is indeed released as a Hybrid, will be how they market the disc. That cover Keith posted it obviously a mock up, but will this be a "stealth" SACD or will there be a full blown marketing campaign and proper packaging designations. Seeing Sony is supposedly fianancing this entire project, you would think they would not hide the SACD aspect of the disc, but with them you never know.

Justin,
This is my forecast, which is entirely just a hunch...
Dark Side of The Moon will be a hybrid disc with no obvious outward SACD sticker so as to sell as a remastered title like the Rolling Stones.
I base this on recent comments bny David Kawakami who seems to think that the stealth way is a better way to get the format launched. The SACD is mentioned in the radio ads and print ads to generate a bit of buzz.
Please remember that the Stones campaign was regarded in the industry as being very successful and that it involved a full-blown marketing campaign including a partnership with the Clear Channel radio stations.
I think Sony finds merit in this approach possibly for these reasons:
(1) They get a wider release in terms of unit sales which allows additional evidence to present to the next band.
(2) They allay fears of possible band and label that SACD labelling may be confusing to the consumer.
(3) They get better numbers to report, while getting SACDs out into the market. Really big Floyd fans will likely consider an SACD player purchase.
I think this will be an interesting and widely anticipated title. I remain very skeptical of Audio Revolution's sources however but David Robinson is also hearing the same thing so it appears to be a done deal. We should be cautious and wait for an official confirmation likely at CES soon.

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

I'm a Really Big Floyd Fan but I am not motivated to buy a SACD player (or DVD-A for that matter) just for DSOTM. I may get SACD and/or DVD-A capability when I upgrade my DVD-Video player, but it will not be at the top of my shopping list. In the meantime I would want to be able to listen to DSOTM multichannel using the DVD-Video compatible TS_VIDEO section of a DVD-A disc. Deny me the ability to hear it on the equipment I own now and I'll have little reason to buy the disc now.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Good news indeed. There are more and more SACD titles being released each week. Very encouraging.

As for marketing the disc, a Dual-Layer SACD makes the most sense. A DVD-A title is only playable on a DVD player.

A dual-layer SACD is playable on CD/SACD/and DVD players, and as with the Stones releases, dont cost any more than a standard disc. I wont even mention the jewel cases that are the same size as other CD's (OK, so I will) That sure covers a bunch more ground.

Multiple transport compatibility is where hybrid SACD has it all over DVD-A. Until there are DVD players common in cars and boom boxes, a redbook CD layer will sell more discs.

Great news on the Floyd disc.

Mike

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Deny me the ability to hear it on the equipment I own now and I'll have little reason to buy the disc now.

I hear you Wayne but think about this from Sony's standpoint.
If they sell a boatload of copies because all the Floyd fans buy the latest remaster AND multi-channel SACD fans buy for their 5.1 setup AND they capture audiophile market for two channel, then they have a very nice number (likely much greater than they got for the Stones series which were very good).
This seems to be far greater than capturing...
DVDA player owners AND home theater fans with 5.1 who will listen to DTS tracks or DVDA.
Sony gets a bigger number to report and they use that for leverage to get other big bands. My dream is that a good number prompts some consideration for the Beatles.
After a number of big titles, SACD looks very established and it becomes that much harder for DVDA.
I think Sony is doing the right thing here. We should give them some credit for getting this HUGE title.
At the same time, producing SACDs is getting less and less expensive as the best recording studios globally purchase the new DSD editing and recording equipment. Plus, you will hear better recordings as more "pure DSD" recording chains are used....
2003 could be a breakthrough year.

 

[John Kotches]

Lee,

I'm curious, why should we give credit to Sony for what is (to this point) speculation?

The rumor has yet to be confirmed by official sources from EMI or Pink Floyd.

Your assumption is that big sales might come from a remaster. That remains to be seen.

If the goal is to hit the largest number of players with multi-channel capability, they've just missed the target big time.

DVD-A (with DD and/or DTS tracks) covers:
DVD-V, DVD-A/DVD-V/, DVD-V/SACD

Multi-channel SACD covers:
DVD-V/SACD, SACD players

Tell me which audience is larger.

US Sales of DVD players exceeds 40million units of the former. Worldwide sales of DVD players exceeds 100 million units of the former.

Worldwide sales of SACD players? Somewhere around 3-5 million units is my guess. Sony reports only ~1 million player sales in the US and ~1 million player sales in
Europe.

Regardless of which format its released on, I'll pick the title up.

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

If the goal is to hit the largest number of players with multi-channel capability, they've just missed the target big time.

But we disagree with the premise: I don't think they are trying to hit just multi-channel. I think they are trying to reach all Pink Floyd fans. As much as we all like multi-channel, I bet the band really wants to keep all of its fans happy.
Sony still wins because of the backward compatability issue. There are far more CD players (approx. 120 million) than DVD players (40 million).
By the way, I have been reading some posts at Audio Asylum from David Robinson who I personally know is plugged into the SACD scene with many industry sources. He has also confirmed the title. He hints that he also has learned of some other major Super Audio titles in the works as well. But as I have said before, I will wait for an official release.
This seems teed up for the upcoming CES on January 10th.

If you look at this from a business strategy standpoint, you see really three different points of view. These may include hypothetically:
EMI
1) Super Audio offers copy protection.
2) Super Audio also offers a way to reach people with just CD players.
3) More sales possible from remastering push.
Pink Floyd
1) Keep the fans happy, even those with just CD players.
2) Finally get our multi-channel version of the album out.
3) Make lots of money on release as life is expensive.
Sony
1) Create large unit volume, big title event with lots of signal value.
2) Infiltrate more CD music fans homes and get them curious about SACD.
3) Leverage big sales number to "turn on" other big bands and their catalogs
4) Keep EMI and Pink Floyd happy and build relationship.
5) Balance confusing consumer (and possibly EMI) with SACD logo on front versus building certain aspects of brand awareness.
On balance, I think it would not be important at this point to even mention Super Audio on the cover.

 

[Phil A]

And don't forget that the more high profile titles that get released on whichever format will eventually help hardware sales as well. DVD-A seems to fall further and further behind on what they initially announced was eventually coming. If Sony can put up production costs so could Warner, but they do not. I can't imagine what they are artist or artists they are holding out for - Zamphir? If either format is to succeed, software is the key. It would appear that Sony's long-term strategy may be to have hybrids replace regular CDs, perhaps at a slightly higher cost (e.g. $1 list) than current CDs.

DVD-A is betting on being usable in DVD-V machines as their bread and butter but no matter how many DVD-V machines are out there is not a good measuure. The CD plus Graphics format was already out and a dismal failure. Most people I know would opt for a concert video vs. a hi-rez DVD-A. I've had about a half dozen people ask me whay I was stupid enough to buy "The Last Waltz" on the DVD-A format when I could have had the DVD-V. This is the video generation where videos are part of the culture. The masses will opt for DVD-V for video with surround sound music. If DVD-A does not get quality software out there by known artists, it will become a format utilized by independent labels and musicians to market their products.

 

[Al B. C]

How many Pink Floyd fans out there don't have a DVD player?
Gimme a break.
SACD only would be the biggest of blunders. Both formats - yes. SACD only - who needs yet another remastered copy of DSOTM? I sure don't.
I'm quite sure that the stereo track or the DTS track on a DVD-A would sound better than even the latest remastered redbook copy of DSOTM.