Copy Protection on SACD & DVD-A ? (1 Viewer)

[Westly T]

DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD impose restrictions that go beyond the ones that were a part of the AHRA "deal" and that interfere with lawful Fair Use (such as making custom compilations, making MP3s for your own personal use on a computer or portable stereo, etc.).

I keep hearing things of this nature, so my question is:

If I record from my DVD-A or SACD player using the analog outputs to my MiniDisk or CD-R recorder will I have problems? I would think I could do it and get a better sounding copy then I would if my source was a CD. I usually do digital copies of CD's and this is not possible with DVD-A or SACD, but other then the loss of doing an analog recording is there any other problems?

 

[KeithH]

Westly, recording DVD-Audio or SACD to a CD-R in analog mode should work. I haven't tried it myself, but I have often thought about it. I don't see why it shouldn't work. The sound quality of the resulting copy will depend on the quality of the A/D converter in your CD recorder. Someone on HTF sent me a copy of disc 1 of The Sopranos: Pepper & Eggs SACD on a CD-R, but I have yet to compare it to my SACD and store-bought CD. I've only listened to the CD-R on its own, and it sounds very good.

 

[Martin Fontaine]

I'm sure there are tools for DVD-ROM drives to do this. Just like people rip a DVD movie then downcode it to DivX and posts it on the net. There are a few albums that I don't have on CD that I would buy on DVD-A but since I also listen to music on the bus and at work, It could be useful to rip the Stereo Track (192/24 or 96/24), decompress it to a WAV file, then downsample it to 44/16 and make MP3s or CD-Rs.

 

[John Kotches]

Martin,

You'd need a software MLP decoder to do that, and they don't exist in the PC market at this point in time.

Regards,

 

[Ian Montgomerie]

You'd need more than a software MLP decoder.

DVD-Audio discs from major labels are normally protected with an encryption system. It is substantially more robust than the CSS system used to protect DVD-Video. "Ripping" DVD-Video on PCs is only possible because some kid in Scandinavia cracked the CSS encryption system pretty thoroughly. DVD-A uses CPPM which I have some experience with. CPPM is inherently quite a bit more secure. I suspect that the licensing companies will NEVER allow a pure software CPPM decrypter (CSS was hacked because Zoran's pure software CSS decrypter was written insecurely, they left a key just sitting in memory in the clear). At best, they might let soundcard manufaturers start storing a key in each card. They won't make it so easy to get ahold of the keys.

SACD is even worse. You cannot even read the data correctly without a special type of disc drive from Sony, and at present such drives do not exist for PCs.

So there is no way at present to get the full-quality digital output. The most you will get digitally is a CD-quality downmix on your digital out. Of course, a really sophisticated operation could capture the 6-channel analog output and re-encode it into a convenient format, but that would be a pain, and you would lose some quality from the digital -> analog -> digital process.

 

[Paul Campbell]

Why does everybody keep bringing up PC CD-recorders? I beleive the original question was concerning mini disk, which is much different because you don' really have the software options you would with a PC

 

[Brian L]

You should be OK going analog (as you mentioned). I guess the quality of the recording will depend on:

a. The Quality of the Source

b. The D/A in the player

c. The A/D in the recorder

All things being equal (which they never are) a high rez source should be better then a Red Book source, but again, there are a lot of variables in the equation.

I have recorded DVD-A (as well as 96/24 PCM such as from Queen's A Night at the Opera) via the analog outs of my DVD player into a Pioneer CD Recorder. Th results were OK.

You will NOT normally be able to use the digital out because even though it is down-rez'd 48/16 PCM, virtually every disc uses the SCMS copy flag. All consumer decks will see this and enter "CAN NOT COPY" mode. I assume you have discovered this?

I personally consider this an abuse of the SCMS technology, which is supposed to limit copies of copies; not limit copies of original recordings.

I have discussed it with the Home Recording Rights Coalition, but it is considered small beer compared to everything else they are fighting at the moment.

BL