Considering a high-end Plasma: Tell me about burn-in dangers

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Ronald Epstein, Aug 31, 2003.

  1. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
    Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    47,657
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Real Name:
    Ronald Epstein
    May have the opportunity to get my hands on
    a Panasonic TH-50PHD5UY 50" Plasma.

    I had never considered Plasma before because
    I never was really happy with the lack of black
    levels nor the fact that I have actually seen
    burn-in damage done on these display devices.

    Two years ago I had the opportunity to attend
    a studio press event in NYC. They were using
    plasma monitors to display menus and DVD footage.
    Every single one of those plasmas has burn-in
    damage by the end of the day.

    I also have read that watching 4x3 television
    for long periods of time can cause burn in damage.

    So, my question is while considering the purchase
    of a plasma set, what are the dangers of image
    burn-in?

    Also, if anyone further cares to answer....

    I presently own a Toshiba 57" RPTV. Do I really
    want to give up that set in favor of a 50" Plasma?
    Yes, the 50" Plasma is 1080i HD capable, but wouldn't
    image quality look better on a RPTV?

    Thanks, everyone, in advance.
     
  2. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Ron, I'd keep that Toshiba — for all the reasons you've already noted in your post. Beyond the sex appeal of a super-slim monitor that can be hung on a wall, for my money (at least) the technology is not there yet (while your RPTV has been very highly reviewed). As you know, there are many here who have plasma displays and just love them.
     
  3. BruZZi

    BruZZi Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1999
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  4. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
    Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    47,657
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Real Name:
    Ronald Epstein
    Gents (with special attention to Glauco),

    Thanks so very much for this detailed information.

    I think I'll wait for next year's models to arrive.
    In any event, this news concerning no burn-in and
    the overall display benefits makes me VERY excited
    about getting into Plasma.

    Thanks again!!!!
     
  5. John_F

    John_F Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 1999
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    I switched from RPTV (a 40" Toshiba 16x9) to Plasma (Pioneer 42") 5 months ago and, IMO, the plasma gives a MUCH better picture; If I had to get a new display, it would be a plasma, by a wide margin.

    I had some concerns about burnin, but after reading many posts (mostly by plasma owners), came to the conclusion that burnin wouldn't be a problem for me. In my mind, the burnin issue is similar to when I bought my RPTV (4 years ago); back then there were a lot of posts about burnin, but found it to be a non-issue for the RPTV I bought. I have seen ghosting.

    IMO, I would be less concerned with burnin, and more concerned with picture quality (black levels, ...).

    Just some more info, my primary viewing habits are DVD (at least one a night), and when I watch 4x3 material (which is seldom), I use a stretch mode (similar to Theater Wide on a Toshiba). I have not noticed any burnin issues (even though probably half of my viewing has 2.35 letterboxing, I believe this would cause the same problem as viewing 4x3 material).

    I'm sorry to direct the owner to another sire [​IMG], but I would suggest reading the plasma forum on avsforum. And as Galuco mentioned, Panasonic has some new models coming out, and Pioneer has announced their next models.

    Good luck,
    John Flegert
     
  6. BruZZi

    BruZZi Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1999
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're Welcome Ronald. [​IMG]

    Here's a problem with the TH-50PHD5UY.

    It doesn't have DVI input. An optional TY-42TM4D Card is available to buy Online. The Standard terminal supplied with the PHD5UY must be removed to fit it .


    However the TY-42TM4D ...

    1) It's not HDCP Compliant

    2) It comes with S-Video/Composite input but you'll lose the component input removing the standard terminal

    3) Price is around $445 (list)



    There's an optional TY-42TM6D DVI-HDCP card available for the new TH-50PHD6UY (Won't fit previous models).

    The New Consumer TH-50PX20 comes with HDMI terminal.
     
  7. Rich H

    Rich H Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Can you hear me Rich ????"

    >Swooshes through window, flips back cape, stands akimbo<

    I'm here, good sir. I understand someone needs PLASMA help!

    Ronald,

    I've been inhabiting the very popular AVS plasma/flat panel forum for over two years. During that time many, many people have written about their experience replacing CRT sets. Virtually every single person has reported the plasma offered a definite upgrade in image quality...this includes many people replacing high-grade CRTs (ala Sony XBR etc) and RPTVs. Every single RPTV owner who has bought a plasma has reported they find the plasma offers the better image, and even though the plasma is inevitably smaller than the RPTV they are replacing, they are happier with the perceived increase in image quality. (One member still has his very high-end RPTV, ISF'd with 9" guns as well as a Fujitsu 50" plasma, and he reports that every single guest who A/B's the two images says it's no contest -the plasma wins on picture quality).

    That doesn't mean of course that anyone who says RPTV images look better is wrong. It's all subjective (I don't take the "specs" approach, assigning a blue ribbon to the display that passes all the NTSC test patterns most easily...I go with which one fools my eye with the most believable image). I happen to prefer plasma. After comparing many of the top RPTV brands - Pioneer Elite, Mitsu, Hitachi, Toshiba, Sony - in very good conditions (all ISF'd, control of surrounding lighting etc) against plasmas, I have always found the plasma capable of greater realism. RPTVs can to a degree mimick the seductiveness of film; plasmas can take it further and often mimick the beauty of real life.

    That's my take anyway. I'm trying to make you feel good about the purchase you already seemed destined to make :)

    While you bide your time waiting, maybe this thread might interest you, in which I compare the viewing experience of my plasma against a Pioneer Elite RPTV:

    COMPARISON: Pioneer Elite RPTV vs Plasma

    I should add that, because *I* prefer plasma doesn't mean I think therefore plasma is *better* than RPTVs. I think it's too subjective. Which is also why I tend to object when someone says RPTVs are "better" than plasmas. Plasmas used to suck, but these days it's a horse race, with each technology producing a different, but equally valid type of image.
     
  8. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
    Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    47,657
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Real Name:
    Ronald Epstein
    Rich,

    Thank You so much for your response here.

    It's looking reasonably good that I will be
    getting one of the new Panasonic 50" models due
    out at year's end.

    Your reply here sealed my determination to do so.

    Thanks for stopping over here. Hope you will
    continue to frequent this forum and help others
    with Plasma advice.

    Regards!
     
  9. DavidES

    DavidES Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    This might be a good read for you Ronald.
     
  10. Rich H

    Rich H Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regarding burn-in: Obvious cautions apply. But anyone likely to inhabit this board is also likely to apply some sense and care to how they use their display.

    Burn-in has been discussed add infinitum over at the AVSplasma forum, although it is less discussed these days. This is because, after several years of contributions by plasma owners it appears burn-in in is exceedingly rare.
    Several times in fact there have been sticky posts, asking plasma owners to report instances of burn-in. So far NOBODY has reported burn in from anything resembling normal plasma use. Some have reported seeing burn-in on industrial-use plasmas that constantly display the same image (as in airport monitors). Or store models that stayed playing 2:35:1 movies exclusively for months (I've seen that myself).

    The only people who reported *slight,* barely noticeable burn in were two folks who put the plasma through perfect burn-in abuse: One guy watched only 4:3 material, unstretched, with totally black bars on the side exclusively for something like a year. Afterwhich he could see slight burn-in of the central 4:3 square. The other person, if I remember correctly, essentially bought the plasma for his kids to play games on. So, obviously after months of repetitive play using games with static areas to the image, he got some perceptible burn in.

    But that's it.

    I've had my panny 42" plasma for over a year. I fill the screen with 4:3 material and it looks great. Even so, the bulk of the display's on-time is TV for my kids and wife - that means a LOT of time playing kid's stations with hard, opaque station logos (the same every morning too). Lots of news channels with static areas. And I've played innumerable 2:35:1 letter-boxed films and...no burn in whatsoever.

    Once you calibrate a plasma to typical Home Theater standards, the burn-in risk is very low with anything resembling sensible use (and, I wish my use were more sensible..but..kid's what are you gonna do?).
     
  11. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    12,215
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Real Name:
    Parker
    Rich:

    Let me ask you about calibration to "typical Home Theater standards". Does this mean using a typical disc like AV Standard or AVIA or would you recommend investing in a professional calibration?

    Thanks,
    Parker
     
  12. Rich H

    Rich H Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Parker,

    Yes, I mean the picture settings that are typically arrived at using AVIA or VE, as a general ball park. In other words, turned down from factory settings blazing "Torch" mode. I can't tell you anything you wouldn't already know. But as a plasma owner I can mention this:

    I have various stored picture settings that I use depending on the type of image I want. One we typically use to watch standard television has the contrast turned virtually all the way down, which offers a very smooth picture and makes it far less prone to burn-in (as you know). Despite the contrast and brightness settings being turned down so far, the image remains excellent in terms of brightness, punchiness, dimensionality and legibility - even though the plasma is situated in a room that has brutal amounts of sunlight pouring in during the day (almost all windows on the side near the plasma).

    My settings for DVD have the contrast and brightness higher, but still quite below "torch" mode.

    As far as recommending pro calibration, I've found plasma to be user friendly enough to allow even meat-heads like me arrive at a great image all by myself. It doesn't take any training to turn the contrast and brightness down, for one thing. If you are obsessed with knowing your plasma is speced to NTSC standards, with a perfect gray scale etc, then paying a pro may provide peace of mind. But, unlike RPTVs there is less for a pro to tweak, and I've found the "wow" factor of a plasma calibration to be less than on a CRT-based display. I actually had my plasma calibrated by an ISF guy, and preferred my own settings. But other people might prefer their plasma after an ISF calibration.

    BTW, great forum! The amps/receivers forum was incredibly helpful in my eventual purchase of a Pioneer 49TX receiver.

    Cheers,
     
  13. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
    Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    47,657
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Real Name:
    Ronald Epstein
    Rich,

    Thanks for all your help.

    Informative reading!
     
  14. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    12,215
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Real Name:
    Parker
    Rich:

    Thanks for the information and the kudos on the forum. We are definitely trying to be more hardware related and with members such as yourself Glauco coming into these threads to field questions from all of us this is going to continue to grow.

    Parker
     
  15. BruZZi

    BruZZi Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1999
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    0
    My pleasure guys. [​IMG]

    Thanks for helping out Rich. [​IMG]
     

Share This Page