Can Pioneer VSX45 detect 96khz?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Brad Newton, Jun 13, 2005.

  1. Brad Newton

    Brad Newton Second Unit

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    Just playing around with Dr Chesky's 5.1 surrond dvd this weekend & can't get the receiver to play the 96khz selection. Is this unit capable of detecting this? I also have the Pioneer 45A dvd player. Is there just a setting that needs to be changed?
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    I have seen some DVD players that just won't output it as well.....

    Not sure though, very few will have exerpeince with this sort of sampling rate on consumer / home gear.

    heck, still relatively few have experience with it in pro / recording studio gear in all honesty, where most who try it, usually end up moving back down. Dithering and the like, usually make it not worth it.
     
  3. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Question:

    Does that sampler indicate anywhere that the 96kHz track is regular PCM (soemtimes referred to as "LPCM" or linear PCM) or is it compressed PCM (referred to as either "PPCM" for packed PCM or "MLP", which stands for Meridian Lossless Packing).

    Because if it is LPCM: there is a good chance the digital output will allow it to pass IF the player is programmed to do this. BUT.....some discs that have such a track are authored so nothing *you* do will allow it to exit through the digital output (i.e. copying paranoia).

    If it is PPCM/MLP: I have never personally heard of such a track exiting through the digital output.

    Also for some reason some players, usually budget ones though, won't pass anything higher than 48kHz--I don't know why.

    I looked up your receiver on Pioneer's site but I can't download the manual without registering. But going from the spec page it SHOULD be able to handle a 96kHz PCM input, but I'm just guessing. Just because a receiver or processor uses XkHz DACs doesn't mean they are wired to actually use that capability, and sometimes it is used only for internal routing/processing of the signals.

    But using the player's analog outputs will solve all these problems.

    FYI:

    Certain dvd-audio discs from Warner (Doobie Brothers, Billy Cobham, etc) and Capitol (Eric Johnson, out of print now [for a good reason though]) have 96kHz/24bit LPCM tracks but they are provided so regular dvd-video players can also play them but their digital outputs are shut off by the disc's software.

    But.......AIX Records' dvd-a titles, and Classic Records' "DAD" and "HDAD" discs (the 96kHz side), don't share this feature so the customer can use his own outboard DAC with them. And I think DTS Entertainment's discs with 96kHz LPCM tracks also do this, but that's only hearsay.
     
  4. Brad Newton

    Brad Newton Second Unit

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    Are you saying that in order to listen to the 96khz selection, I should be using the "multi channel in" function? The receiver also has a "hi-bit sampling" function. Should that be chosen also?

    I don't know the answer to your questions. When I select the 96khz portion, I can hear it, but it is no where near the volume of the dolby digital.
     
  5. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    How do you have the player hooked up to the receiver? If you're listening to the Dolby track via a digital input & the 96kHz track via an analog input, right there we have a possible reason for the volume diffrence. NOT because analog is bad (an irritating urban audio myth) but because

    1) the receiver treats the analog inputs differently or

    2) the 96kHz track is recorded at a lower level than the Dolby one, probably to increase its dynamic range. This is a common practice with high quality recordings.....which is part of the reason it's a high quality recording. [​IMG]

    ************************************************** ********

    Speaking of dynamic range: if your receiver's DRC--i.e. dynamic range control--is set to anything but OFF it can have a substantial effect on the volume of Dolby soundtracks. I think Pioneer calls their DRC system the "midnight mode". Whatever it's called, this system brings the levels of the softer and louder sounds closer together, reducing the soundtrack's dynamic range so you won't get hit with any loud bursts of sound which is useful in dorms, apartments and other places you share a wall with others & who you don't want to bother with your Star Wars movies. [​IMG] And it also has the side effect of making the entire track seem louder, which is maybe what you are hearing now. And unfortunately it also takes away from the movie's--or music's--emotional effect by flattening most of the overall sound, i.e. the rough equivalent of a person giving a speech in a monotone. Zzzzzzz.

    And I've discovered during my trips to A/V stores many receivers come from the factory with their DRC set at what many manufacturers call the "standard" position. The other choices are usually OFF and MAX. So standard is the medium position. Personally, except late at night (I don't live by myself), I always listen to my movies and especially my music-oriented dvds with my receiver's DRC set to OFF. When set to MAX as an experiment, I listened to the 5.1 Dolby track on my Linkin Park Reanimation (yea I know :b ) dvd-audio and immediately noticed the formerly-subtle hiss in the background was much more audible now and the entire presentation was too bright sounding and rather irritating to listen to--a sure sign of an overly-compressed signal.
     
  6. Brad Newton

    Brad Newton Second Unit

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    I have the dvd player connected via optical cable & via analog for sacd playback.

    If I am understanding you correctly, the 96khz is analog & therefore should be played basically like sacd. The receiver does have DRC & it is set to the off position.
     
  7. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Yes.

    Sorry to flood you with so much info but wasn't sure how that Chesky disc was authored, so I just threw everything out there at once. [​IMG]

    BTW: I checked out Chesky's site and couldn't find any mnetion of a stereo track on this disc--do you know if there's one on there? Is there a 5.1 Dolby Digital track? I saw this at Best Buy and was thinking of buying it.
     

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