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Configuring non 4k Receiver with Ultra HD Blu-ray player and 4k TV (1 Viewer)

punman

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I recently bought the Sony 800M2 player so I could play Ultra HD movies and SACD. I swapped out my old Sony S360 player. I was getting no image when I switched my receiver to “Blu-ray”from “Cable”. I discovered it was because my Denon 2311(from 2011) is HDMI 1.4 and can’t pass through the 4k.


Here is what I did. I ran the HDMI from port one of the Blu-ray player directly to the television. I then ran an optical cable from the T.V. to the receiver for sound. I now get sound and video when using the Blu-ray player.


My Denon receiver and 4k Vizio M60 TV (from 2017) have A.R.C. but not eARC. The TV does not do HDR. I am using a KEF 5.1 speaker setup. So I have a few questions:

Given the setup I currently have, did I do the best strategy to get things working?

Should I do any special settings in setting up the player to account for the configuration I have?

Am I compromising a lot on audio with the optical cable?

I can see that with the addition of the 4k player, the TV and AVR have become the weak links here. None can recognize some of the newest surround modes. If I can only afford to replace one of them at the moment, which would give me more bang for the buck? I don’t plan on buying more speakers.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong area as this involves AVR, TV, and Blu-ray players. Feel free to move if needed.
 

Todd Erwin

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The best way for you to hook up that player to your Denon 2311 is to run HDMI 1 from the X800M2 to an open HDMI input on your TV (which you already did), then run HDMI 2 (Audio) from the X800M2 to an open input on your Denon receiver. You will then need to go into the settings menu on your X800M2, go to System Settings, scroll down to HDMI Audio Output, and select HDMI2. You should then be able to hear movies in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, and play multichannel SACD's.
 

Scott Merryfield

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Just to expand on @Todd Erwin 's recommendation (which I completely agree with), the optical connection you ran from the TV to your receiver will severely constrain the type of audio you will get from your 4K player. You will not get high resolution audio from your SACD discs, nor lossless high resolution audio from UHD discs through that connection. Optical cannot transmit those types of audio formats. You must use the dual HDMI connection method described by Todd in order to get those types of audio to your receiver.
 

punman

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Pardon my lack of knowledge, but the second HDMI cable, coming out of the HDMI Out (2) for audio; where would I plug the other end into my Denon receiver? The only HDMI slots not occupied are ones labelled IN - DVD, games, V.Aux. Would one of those work?
 

Todd Erwin

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Pardon my lack of knowledge, but the second HDMI cable, coming out of the HDMI Out (2) for audio; where would I plug the other end into my Denon receiver? The only HDMI slots not occupied are ones labelled IN - DVD, games, V.Aux. Would one of those work?
Any of those would work. If DVD is available, I would just use that one. The player sends the audio over that HDMI port toi the receiver, and a 480i screen that will show the following:

x800.JPG

If you see this screen, just change the input on your TV to the port that the HDMI1 from the X800M2 was plugged into.
 

Mike Up

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I recently bought the Sony 800M2 player so I could play Ultra HD movies and SACD. I swapped out my old Sony S360 player. I was getting no image when I switched my receiver to “Blu-ray”from “Cable”. I discovered it was because my Denon 2311(from 2011) is HDMI 1.4 and can’t pass through the 4k.


Here is what I did. I ran the HDMI from port one of the Blu-ray player directly to the television. I then ran an optical cable from the T.V. to the receiver for sound. I now get sound and video when using the Blu-ray player.


My Denon receiver and 4k Vizio M60 TV (from 2017) have A.R.C. but not eARC. The TV does not do HDR. I am using a KEF 5.1 speaker setup. So I have a few questions:

Given the setup I currently have, did I do the best strategy to get things working?

Should I do any special settings in setting up the player to account for the configuration I have?

Am I compromising a lot on audio with the optical cable?

I can see that with the addition of the 4k player, the TV and AVR have become the weak links here. None can recognize some of the newest surround modes. If I can only afford to replace one of them at the moment, which would give me more bang for the buck? I don’t plan on buying more speakers.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong area as this involves AVR, TV, and Blu-ray players. Feel free to move if needed.
You can get better as I did nearly the same.

I had my Denon AVR-2312ci hooked up to my 4K TV. The receiver only passes 1080p60 and 3D. My Sony X700 UHD Bluray player has "2" HDMI outputs, 1 for video to go directly to the TV and 1 for sound to go directly to the receiver. It's made to work with older receivers that are not 4K compatible. Your Sony 800M2 is the same, one step up from X700 with the addition of a full size chassis and DVD-A compatibility as well.

I ran all my 4K streamer directly to the television and set the television for bitstream and it downmixed DD+ 5.1 to DD 5 and sent the DD 5.1 through the TV's optical output to my receiver.

I just upgraded my Denon AVR-2312ci receiver to a Denon AVR-S960h. It's 90 watts/ch compared to the 2312's 105/ch but sound is just as good and I don't notice any loudness differences being 15 watts is barely perceivable in audio. I never used the Zone features, custom install features, or Audyssey XT, so I didn't bother buying them in the AVR-X2700H.

My Denon AVR-2312ci followed the LG 3D 1080p TV, that the receiver was bought for, from the living room system, to the older equipment in the Media Room System. Both sound really good in Stereo as well as HT. The new S960h sounds so much better in HT, from the discrete channels in Atmos but also because I replaced my older Infinity Surround/Surround back speakers with Polk TL1 speakers. The Polk TL1 speakers sound clearer and are voiced better with the front Polk TSI100 speakers.

BTW, if you ever decided to get an Atmos receiver, Atmos uses standard ARC with DD+. Using eARC, you gain by it being compatible with lossless formats as Dolby True HD w/Atmos. However I use it with my new HiSense TV that only has ARC. The Hisense is an Android TV and my streaming apps only use Atmos DD+ so I would gain little with eARC.

Enjoy your system
 

punman

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So I plugged an HDMI cable into the second HDMI-out on the player and went into settings for the player and set HDMI 2 for audio. I plugged the other end into the AVR BD - In and dialed the Denon to BD.
The player worked fine for the video but still no audio. Maybe I have to set something different on the Denon setup but not sure what that would be. I was using BD slot with the old Sony player, no problem.
 

Todd Erwin

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How are the inputs mapped on the Denon? Newer models like mine allow you to map optical, coax, and analog audio to an HDMI input.
 

Mike Up

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One HDMI is only audio with no video. There should be no setting needed on the Denon other than the correct HDMI Input.

The Sony has to have the HDMI outputs setup. Go to System Settings: HDMI Audio Output: HDMI 2 is what you want the audio to come out of. Make sure to connect HDMI output 2 to the Denon Receiver and HDMI 1 to the TV.
 

punman

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I disconnected the audio cable, then reconnected and it worked this time. I have no idea why, but I am happy. Thanks to everyone for their help. Now I just have to decide if it is worth it to upgrade my TV or receiver or both.
 

Mike Up

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My Denon receiver and 4k Vizio M60 TV (from 2017) have A.R.C. but not eARC. The TV does not do HDR. I am using a KEF 5.1 speaker setup. So I have a few questions:

I can see that with the addition of the 4k player, the TV and AVR have become the weak links here. None can recognize some of the newest surround modes. If I can only afford to replace one of them at the moment, which would give me more bang for the buck? I don’t plan on buying more speakers.
Now I just have to decide if it is worth it to upgrade my TV or receiver or both.
As far as HT quality, you'll get better picture quality with a new TV with HDR.

With a new receiver from Denon, you'll get more conveniences with Wifi and 4K compatibility but sound quality should be the same if you stick near the same class of receiver you have.

My AVR-S960H and AVR-2312ci sound very close where I couldn't tell a difference. They both sound excellent.

Now in 7.1 (that you don't use) the AVR-S960H can sound better with Atmos 7.1 discrete as most new movie content is Atmos (7.1 discrete) compared to DTS-ES HD Master 5.1 or DD+ 5.1 which required DPL IIx to decode the Surround Back Channels. There is DTS-ES HD Master Discrete 7.1 content and DD+ 7.1 discrete content. However is actually pretty rare compared to the 5.1 content offered.

Dolby Surround in the AVR-S960H replaced DPL IIx from the AVR-2312ci, so it is used to create the surround back channels on 5.1 content in the AVR-S960H. However the AVR-S960h can decode Dolby Atmos (which is discrete 7.1) that is available on most new movies where the AVR-2312ci can not.

As I said with a 5.1 system, it's a non-issue. However if you plan to upgrade your speaker system, going 7.1 or 5.1.2 (Atmos) can make a large difference.

I have a Hisense 65U6G TV. It has an EXCELLENT PQ with EXCELLENT black levels due to it's great VA Display and Full Array Local Dimming. Rtings.com rated it as good as TVs from other brands costing twice as much. It is compatible with both Dolby Vision and HDR10+. I can say these 2 formats make a HUGE difference in picture quality. Standard HDR10 looks good and is an improvement but not as good as those other 2 HDR formats.

With a 5.1 speaker system I would upgrade your TV first then your sound system.

I have upgraded EVERYTHING in the last year. I replaced my Infinity 3 front speakers with Polk TSI speakers (Huge upgrade!). I then upgrade from a LG 4K TV (only standard HDR10) to the Hisense 65U6G TV (Huge upgrade), then upgraded my receiver to the Denon AVR-S960H as well as upgrading my old Infinity Surround and Surround Back speakers to Polk TL1 speakers. I also upgraded my Failed Velodyne CT-100 subwoofer to a Klipsch R-120SW subwoofer.

I now have a truly first rate HT system in my Living room. There's nothing I'd consider upgrading and none of my components were expensive. If anything, everything was a great bang for the buck buy! I bought everything with a large discount which allowed to me upgrade pretty much everything. I just keep watching Amazon for some of their ridiculous sale prices and jump when I see them go to those levels. The TV was with a Best Buy Sale that was pretty good. Hard to find a store that had them, as most were sold out.

BTW, my room can't accomidate Atmos ceiling speakers or rear Dolby Enabled Atmos speakers. I find more benefit in surround back speakers instead of having Dolby Enabled Atmos speakers in the front. The surround back speakers make a huge difference over just having 5.1 in my system.

Front Atmos speaker didn't make sense to me as I have a great effect placement with the already 3 front speakers. Having only 2 surround speakers with 5 front speakers didn't make much sense to me.
 
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punman

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Thanks Mike Up for your lengthy response. My eyes are 69 years old and my ears the same. Now that I have my 4k Blu-ray player I will buy a few Ultra HD movies and see how I enjoy that. Maybe then I can answer my own question about replacing a five year old 60 inch 4k TV and an eleven year old AVR to get HDR video and Dolby Atmos & DTS:X sound. I am pretty set though on not going beyond the five speakers and one subwoofer that I already have. More comments about potential upgrading are welcome.
 

Mike Up

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I replaced my LG 55UM7300 after 3 years but it had another house to go to. The black and grey uniformity was terrible with uneven light creating bars and halos. The black level was also grey, couldn't create true blacks. Looked great in bright day light but no so much in a dark room for movie watching.

Local dimming is definitely a requirement. Even TVs with VA panels can't create true blacks without local dimming. Also colors are better on Hisense as well as brightness. Just a much better TV all the way around.

While side viewing on the Hisense was said to be bad, my TV has great side viewing even with a VA panel. ISP panels, as on the LG, are great at side viewing. Honestly, the side viewing is only a tad worse than the LG and completely acceptable.

The Samsung 55RU8000 VA Panel had horrible side viewing as well as black levels. Samsung cheated to make black levels look better with CE dimming or frame dimming. It made the picture so bad with constant changes in brightness trying to make the picture scenes more black that it could really do.
 
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Wardog555

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As far as HT quality, you'll get better picture quality with a new TV with HDR.

With a new receiver from Denon, you'll get more conveniences with Wifi and 4K compatibility but sound quality should be the same if you stick near the same class of receiver you have.

My AVR-S960H and AVR-2312ci sound very close where I couldn't tell a difference. They both sound excellent.

Now in 7.1 (that you don't use) the AVR-S960H can sound better with Atmos 7.1 discrete as most new movie content is Atmos (7.1 discrete) compared to DTS-ES HD Master 5.1 or DD+ 5.1 which required DPL IIx to decode the Surround Back Channels. There is DTS-ES HD Master Discrete 7.1 content and DD+ 7.1 discrete content. However is actually pretty rare compared to the 5.1 content offered.

Dolby Surround in the AVR-S960H replaced DPL IIx from the AVR-2312ci, so it is used to create the surround back channels on 5.1 content in the AVR-S960H. However the AVR-S960h can decode Dolby Atmos (which is discrete 7.1) that is available on most new movies where the AVR-2312ci can not.

As I said with a 5.1 system, it's a non-issue. However if you plan to upgrade your speaker system, going 7.1 or 5.1.2 (Atmos) can make a large difference.

I have a Hisense 65U6G TV. It has an EXCELLENT PQ with EXCELLENT black levels due to it's great VA Display and Full Array Local Dimming. Rtings.com rated it as good as TVs from other brands costing twice as much. It is compatible with both Dolby Vision and HDR10+. I can say these 2 formats make a HUGE difference in picture quality. Standard HDR10 looks good and is an improvement but not as good as those other 2 HDR formats.

With a 5.1 speaker system I would upgrade your TV first then your sound system.

I have upgraded EVERYTHING in the last year. I replaced my Infinity 3 front speakers with Polk TSI speakers (Huge upgrade!). I then upgrade from a LG 4K TV (only standard HDR10) to the Hisense 65U6G TV (Huge upgrade), then upgraded my receiver to the Denon AVR-S960H as well as upgrading my old Infinity Surround and Surround Back speakers to Polk TL1 speakers. I also upgraded my Failed Velodyne CT-100 subwoofer to a Klipsch R-120SW subwoofer.

I now have a truly first rate HT system in my Living room. There's nothing I'd consider upgrading and none of my components were expensive. If anything, everything was a great bang for the buck buy! I bought everything with a large discount which allowed to me upgrade pretty much everything. I just keep watching Amazon for some of their ridiculous sale prices and jump when I see them go to those levels. The TV was with a Best Buy Sale that was pretty good. Hard to find a store that had them, as most were sold out.

BTW, my room can't accomidate Atmos ceiling speakers or rear Dolby Enabled Atmos speakers. I find more benefit in surround back speakers instead of having Dolby Enabled Atmos speakers in the front. The surround back speakers make a huge difference over just having 5.1 in my system.

Front Atmos speaker didn't make sense to me as I have a great effect placement with the already 3 front speakers. Having only 2 surround speakers with 5 front speakers didn't make much sense to me.
You absolutely can achieve ceiling speakers if you choose to do so.

How can I have ceiling speakers and you claim you can't? I can assure you this is false and your only making excuses.

I will say this. Placing atmos speakers properly as in on the ceiling almost directly above you is more immersive than having rear speakers.

Front height doesn't make any sense as the angle is too low to be effective in most cases. You need to be sitting at a maximum 1.6 meter distance for it to work as intended. Then also 1.6 meter distance for the rear height speakers. Note this is for 4 atmos speakers.

Your equipment is on the cheaper side of things. If you do go more expensive like Polk reserve and svs subwoofer. This in itself will be a massive upgrade to what you have now.

The same thing applies with a television. Once you get into the high end models like oled you won't go back!
 

JohnRice

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Thanks Mike Up for your lengthy response. My eyes are 69 years old and my ears the same. Now that I have my 4k Blu-ray player I will buy a few Ultra HD movies and see how I enjoy that. Maybe then I can answer my own question about replacing a five year old 60 inch 4k TV and an eleven year old AVR to get HDR video and Dolby Atmos & DTS:X sound. I am pretty set though on not going beyond the five speakers and one subwoofer that I already have. More comments about potential upgrading are welcome.
The Vizio M Series is a good TV. A good value, and better in most ways than anything available ten years ago. Still, there are also much better, and more expensive options today, though some aren't all that expensive. Currently, I think TCL might take the prize for best bang for the buck in their highest two lines.

Are you certain the Vizio doesn't do any kind of HDR? Might it be that it does HDR10 but not Dolby Vision?

There is definitely evidence to support the benefit of an Atmos capable receiver, even with a 5.1 system. That benefit only shows up with Atmos soundtracks, though. I know it seems absurd to say a 5.1 system will benefit from soundtracks beyond 5.1, but in the real world several people have noticed better surround sound with an Atmos soundtrack and Atmos capable receiver, even with a 5.1 system. There is evidence to support it.
 

punman

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No the Vizio M C-3 has no HDR. When I get some 4k Blu-ray movies at the end of the week I will see how they look and sound with my new 4k Sony .player and then I can decide if my current system seems decent enough for the moment or if I want to wait another year. Here in Canada our best sales seem to be Boxing Day so if something is discounted enough I might be tempted
 

ManW_TheUncool

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You absolutely can achieve ceiling speakers if you choose to do so.

How can I have ceiling speakers and you claim you can't? I can assure you this is false and your only making excuses.

Well, while I certainly wouldn't argue about the value of going Atmos, such statement(s) seems a bit presumptuous and probably overly judgmental me thinks.

I would say though that @Mike Up may also be a bit over-the-top in the other direction(s) (likely w/ plenty of selection bias to support his own prefs/choices/budget) of course...

_Man_
 

Todd Erwin

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No the Vizio M C-3 has no HDR. When I get some 4k Blu-ray movies at the end of the week I will see how they look and sound with my new 4k Sony .player and then I can decide if my current system seems decent enough for the moment or if I want to wait another year. Here in Canada our best sales seem to be Boxing Day so if something is discounted enough I might be tempted
Make sure HDR is enabled on the X800M2.
 

JohnRice

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No the Vizio M C-3 has no HDR. When I get some 4k Blu-ray movies at the end of the week I will see how they look and sound with my new 4k Sony .player and then I can decide if my current system seems decent enough for the moment or if I want to wait another year. Here in Canada our best sales seem to be Boxing Day so if something is discounted enough I might be tempted
I just wanted to make sure. I have the (I think) 2020 version of the 55" M Series in my living room, and it's just an impressive TV, especially for the price, which was less than $500. It doesn't handle HDR as well as the P Series I have downstairs, but for the price, it's pretty amazing.
 

Todd Erwin

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I just looked at reviews of the 2017 Vizio M60-C3, and it appears only HDMI 1 on the TV has HDR capability, so that is the port you will want to plug the Sony X800M2 into.
 

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