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Can Amazon stand above the fray and make sense of the Android / tablet mess? (1 Viewer)

Sam Posten

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Starting to think you all are missing the point here.
Nilay explains it well, if the Mac is a truck and the iPad is a car, then the Fire aims to be a very nimble scooter.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/28/editorial-kindle-fire-ipad/
Do I wish it had a 3g option? Kinda, and I expect rev two definitely will, or maybe even 4g. We'll see. I have 3 other 3g devices (with the PSP vita on the way, that will be #4) so for me personally this is a non issue.
(Edit, holy crap I forgot about one... iPhone, iPad, Chromebook (which I have free 3G for life on and never activated!) and the Kindle 3G, which I have used sparingly but could live without it on... Plus the Vita coming, sheesh!)
People said the iPad wasn't a content creation device but the Fire REALLY isn't aimed at that. It's a pure consumption device that relies on solid net connection. If that's not interesting to you don't buy it, but you can't really trash it for not doing everything it wasnt designed to do.
 

mattCR

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That article is dead on. Amazon is playing the 'Keep it Simple Stupid" card; they are introducing a tablet that is an impulse buy item that people will gobble up for Christmas. They avoid entirely the disaster that is Google's Marketplace.. in Google's Android Marketplace an App A MIGHT work on your device (but with fragmentation, who knows) but with Amazon doing their own tablet running their own store, users will always know exactly which apps run, etc.

Keep it Simple. Frankly, it's a brilliant concept. And the price IS impulse buy territory. I didn't blink twice thinking about committing to two.

Actually, the question about local storage is answered right on their page under battery life:




Up to 8 hours of continuous reading or 7.5 hours of video playback, with wireless off. Battery life will vary based on wireless usage, such as web browsing and downloading content.

So if you can get 7.5 hours of video with wireless off, you must be using local storage ;)
 

Ted Todorov

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855199
How will it kill other tablets? Its entirely cloud based, limited to 8gb onboard space. You cannot add your own video content, you have to have wifi access. You will not be able to add other reading apps like Nook. Yor limited to Amazon's market place apps. This is hardly a replacement for most tablets that let you add up to 32gb of SDHC storage, plays multiple format audio and videos, and allow you to read from various vendors. This is strictly a portal for Amazon, not a bad thing if you are using it, but hardly a replacement for an open device
It will not kill the iPad (or even threaten it much). It will kill Android tablets plus the Playbook.

The Fire has a complete ecosystem, they don't. The Kindle is cheap, they aren't. The Kindle performs its limited functions without lag, they are too busy trying to display Flash banner ads to render your webpage. They will never be able to compete on price because Amazon can afford to sell Kindles at a loss and make it up in book sales and Amazon Prime -- Samsung, HTC, RIM and co. can't.

The iPad has the even fuller ecosystem and sets the standard in responsiveness. It is also far more capable in exchange for the cheap.
 

marsnkc

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Matt's link (thanks) describes the 8GB storage as enough for 80 apps PLUS 10 movies - OR 800 songs - OR 6,000 books. That's enough to get one through a weekend in the wilds.....:D
I ordered mine. With all the talk about it having to be a loss leader at a $250 price point, $199 came as a shock!
I had a Kindle reader with ads. They're harmless, and only appear when you shut the device off. In my case it was either one for Amazon or one for Visa. For what you save, it's a no brainer.
(Was just about to post this when I noticed Matt's quote re battery life, answering the video storage question!)
 

DaveF

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Is it telling that Amazon wouldn't let anyone actually use the Fire at the announcement? Hold it to check the weight, but you couldn't manipulate the screen at all (according to Ars).
 

Ted Todorov

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Originally Posted by mattCR /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855221
So if you can get 7.5 hours of video with wireless off, you must be using local storage ;)
The iPad with its 12 hours of video playback is going to be very hard to beat in the battery life dept. for a very long time. Its competitors had better hope for 110V comes to every airplane seat and other such place much sooner than later...
 

Hanson

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Originally Posted by Ted Todorov /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855226
The Kindle performs its limited functions without lag, they are too busy trying to display Flash banner ads to render your webpage.
That's a myth the iSheep hang on to. No one enables Flash to auto load on Android and it's set to on demand out of the box. Banner ads are white boxes with green arrows in them. Plus the new generation of Android phones to a one beat the iPhone 4 in browser loading tests. But I digress...

Dave, if you frequently use your tablet over 3g and transfer movies to watch offline, the Fire may seem very limited in what it can do. But everyone I know owns a wifi only tablet, so for most people, there aren't really any limitations to a wifi only Fire that they haven't already gotten used to. But I suspect the next gen after Fire will have that access, only because a popular 7" tablet is going to show a lot of people the convenience of the form factor (ie, fits into purses & pockets). Many people expect a tablet to be iPad sized, but there are a number of advantages to have a smaller size, especially if being an eReader is one of the primary functions.
 

Ted Todorov

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveF /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855232
Is it telling that Amazon wouldn't let anyone actually use the Fire at the announcement? Hold it to check the weight, but you couldn't manipulate the screen at all (according to Ars).
Yes, it isn't ready -- but considering the Nook Color, they haven't embarked on "mission impossible". But to anyone expecting an iPad competitor -- it isn't.
 

mattCR

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I think that's true. I think the iPad for right now remains the Lexus device. The thing is, Amazon is clearly aiming for the Toyota Corolla buyer. And there are a lot of people in that crowd. That said, I can think of one flight in the last three years I had that was 7 hours+ on a straight shot.. for the most part, 3/4 is about as long as I'd ever need.



Originally Posted by Ted Todorov /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855233
The iPad with its 12 hours of video playback is going to be very hard to beat in the battery life dept. for a very long time. Its competitors had better hope for 110V comes to every airplane seat and other such place much sooner than later...
 

Sam Posten

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I don't ever expect Apple to 'respond' other company's products, and I sure don't expect anything out of them next week that will address this price point, but I will simply say that this really has me smiling, Amazon has clearly played to their strenghts and Apple's perceived weaknesses, and they have been building their cloud tech for YEARS, it's not something any other hardware manufacturer, save Apple or Google itself, will be able to compete with for a long long time.
I love the competition. I thought Android itself would be good competition to spur Apple on, but that it has finally really shown itself in something that only peripherally uses Android works for me too.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Yeah, it's pretty clear that Amazon is aiming to wipe the floor of all non-iOS tablets. And that $199 price point seems at least in part to be targeted at killing the Nook Color, which is probably the only actual competitor that Amazon cared all that much about at this early stage. I really don't think Amazon even considers the other Android tablets as real competitors.

I guess B&N will now be forced to slash prices on their Nook product line (and probably not just the Nook Color) given today's announcement. They also better come out w/ a substantially improved Nook Color before the holidays (as was rumored a few weeks ago) since the current NC running its current B&N+Android software w/ their severely limited app store, etc. probably won't be able touch the Kindle Fire w/ a 10-ft pole.

For myself, I'm not sure if I'll actually get one -- and my wife already has the NC -- but my manager at work already asked me about it *before* I even had a chance to check out the official info today -- and he hadn't been all that interested before, but the announcement on Amazon's homepage plus the price point got him wanting to get one for his wife (at the very least). I may see about getting one for my son, who had been wanting an iPad, but would probably be happy w/ this as well, (and maybe one for my daughter as well).

I have to say though that I'm not keen on the video streaming stuff since I only have Verizon's basic DSL, which has never been all that good for video streaming, especially over my meager/dated WiFi setup. Also, video streaming over WiFi will likely substantially reduce that 7.5-hour battery life quoted for video playback (w/out WiFi). Not that I'd personally wanna watch a movie on a 7" display anyway, but my kids probably would. Too bad it probably won't work w/ any of the digital copies I already own from buying BD combo packs -- and ripping Disney/Pixar DVDs to MP4 is definitely problematic in my very limited experience...

_Man_
 

Hanson

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I already know people who have preordered and my wife is interested (not a techie in the bunch). This is going to be the must have gadget this Christmas. And I know that techies will probably sneer (frankly, it's way too underpowered and under-featured for me), but once the word gets out that it's user friendly and the size is super convenient, it's going to explode. I can see iPad owners buying a Kindle Fire to have something for the bedside and on the go.
 

Sam Posten

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I haven't seen a single techie sneer Hanson. If you can point an article out that isn't anything but effusive praise even from those who are clearly fans of Apple products I'd like to see it. Honestly bub you always seem to be kvetching about iSheep (/sigh) but it really seems to be YOU that has the chip on your shoulder.
Macworld has been nothing but positive about the release. Here's their latest:
http://www.macworld.com/article/162576/2011/09/the_new_kindles_which_to_choose_.html#lsrc.twt_macworld
Your great devil, Gruber, is doubly so:
http://daringfireball.net/2011/09/amazons_new_kindles
Ihnatko is as well:
http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/7929634-452/amazon-kindle-fire-explodes-onto-tablet-scene.html
 

Hanson

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I love the product for what it is, but spec wise? Really, 8GB of storage (which is more like 5-6 GB after OS and app partitions) and no SD slot or FF camera or mic for videochat is weak sauce for a tablet. Even the Nook Color has a 32gb SD slot.

That said, I am completely buying into the Amazon Fire for the product niche it is filling. I have really been nothing but positive about the product itself, and I have recommended it wholeheartedly to anyone who's asked. But if I state that it's lacking in features, I don't believe I'm out of line or inaccurate. Of course, the flip side is that it's feature rich for the $199 price tag.

And if someone is going to make factually incorrect statements about how Flash runs on Android, I will have to counter that. You would do no less if I pointed out a crippling flaw in iOS that doesn't actually exist. This isn't about chips on shoulders, it's about correcting blatant misinformation. And if that misinformation is just parroting the company line and not based on actual experience? I mean, baaa.
 

Sam Posten

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OK, I got ya. Before moving on I'd add that I would have expected that Flash would be enabled out of the box. If it's not enabled then it's kinda like how I run noscript, which isn't a bad compromise. But the marketing defeats that. ALL the advertising saying "Run the FULL web experience" says it's no compromise Flash. you and I know that's true but the average buyer is going to take them at their word, and be disappointed.
Anyway, the full conference vid is posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm92Tnp953c&feature=youtube_gdata
Fire intro about 30 minutes in.
 

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Originally Posted by Hanson /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/90#post_3855436
I love the product for what it is, but spec wise? Really, 8GB of storage (which is more like 5-6 GB after OS and app partitions) and no SD slot or FF camera or mic for videochat is weak sauce for a tablet. Even the Nook Color has a 32gb SD slot.

That said, I am completely buying into the Amazon Fire for the product niche it is filling. I have really been nothing but positive about the product itself, and I have recommended it wholeheartedly to anyone who's asked. But if I state that it's lacking in features, I don't believe I'm out of line or inaccurate. Of course, the flip side is that it's feature rich for the $199 price tag.

It's $199 -- a mere $100 more than an eink Kindle (and half the price of the ridiculous DX) -- and also lets you watch movies, surf the web, and play Angry Birds, with storage enough to do all that on a cross-country flight. How is this conceivably lacking in features?
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Originally Posted by Hanson /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/90#post_3855436
I love the product for what it is, but spec wise? Really, 8GB of storage (which is more like 5-6 GB after OS and app partitions) and no SD slot or FF camera or mic for videochat is weak sauce for a tablet. Even the Nook Color has a 32gb SD slot.

That said, I am completely buying into the Amazon Fire for the product niche it is filling. I have really been nothing but positive about the product itself, and I have recommended it wholeheartedly to anyone who's asked. But if I state that it's lacking in features, I don't believe I'm out of line or inaccurate. Of course, the flip side is that it's feature rich for the $199 price tag.
Yeah, for myself, I'd want either much bigger internal storage or good expandability there, so being stuck w/ 8GB (and more like ~6GB of useable storage) and relying so heavily on Amazon's Cloud makes me reluctant to get one for myself. But for the average person, that probably won't be a problem, especially given the price tag. And although the NC allows storage expandability, what the current version lacks probably more than easily offset that one advantage (and whatever else unless you're already fairly deeply invested in that platform in terms of purchased apps, ebooks, etc.). One thing though. Given the storage limitation, I wonder how much that will impact the niche of power users who would want to root the device and install custom ROMs -- and I wonder if Amazon had factored that into the equation (to discourage such practice) or whether that will just become a happy coincidence for them.

RE: the lack of FF camera for video chat, I'm still not sure how useful that really is at this point. Video chat just doesn't seem commonplace enough yet for that to be a big deal (at least for the average person). OTOH, if the Kindle Fire were to include that feature and sell like hotcakes x 10, that might give video chat a really big kick toward mainstream adoption. But is cross-platform compatibility a big part of the problem w/ video chat now? Maybe there's just not enough Facetime-enabled iOS devices and video-chat-enabled non-iOS smartphones and netbooks out in the wild just yet...

One other thing. As I consider the Silk browser some more, I'm wondering if the potential privacy/security issues won't outweigh the advantages of going w/ their AWS approach on this. Granted, I guess that's probably a concern w/ all such mobile browsers that use similar proxy approaches to enhance performance, so maybe the concern isn't notably greater w/ Silk than other mobile browsers one would run on a tablet -- maybe the only diff will be that you get more of your web hits get reflected on your next visit to Amazon.com (and its affiliates). Still...

_Man_
 

Ted Todorov

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/90#post_3855436
And if someone is going to make factually incorrect statements about how Flash runs on Android, I will have to counter that. You would do no less if I pointed out a crippling flaw in iOS that doesn't actually exist. This isn't about chips on shoulders, it's about correcting blatant misinformation. And if that misinformation is just parroting the company line and not based on actual experience? I mean, baaa.
So every reviewer of Android devices who have said over and over that Flash works badly on them is making stuff up? Or all my friends with Android devices that don't enable it for the above reason -- deluded iSheep as well?

And while we are on the subject I have been an Apple fanboy since 1984 -- the first iDevice, the iMac didn't come out until a good 14 years later. So I'm grandfathered into "Apple fanatic" -- you can only use iSheep when referring to the ex-Windows using newbies.
 

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Hanson said:
Limp was careful to point out that “as a user, you’d be hard-pressed to notice it’s Android.”
Ouch. Is Google happy about the Fire? I guess web browsing brings them more mobile search, as they want. Is this a win for Google?
 

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