Bookshelfs <$500 to consider (1 Viewer)

[Heath_R]

The Axiom M3's.

I heard them A/B with the Mini Monitors and thought that the mini's had a hump in the midrange. The M3's seemed to be a much more neutral speaker.

 

[Brian Bunge]

jeff lam: i am sure the AV1s sound wonderful with an SVS helping, but for music and people with smaller budgets, the AV1 is not a good fit; it is designed to drop off lower frequencies quicker than most bookshelf/monitors,...

Peter, I don't understand this line of reasoning. Are you comparing ported enclosures to sealed? Any ported speaker will roll off faster than a sealed. That's inherent in their design, which gives you a theoretical 24dB/octave rolloff below the tuning frequency. It can be slightly higher or lower depending on the actual alignment chosen by the designer. Your statement would lead one to think that most bookshelf/monitor speakers are sealed designs. Most I've seen are ported.
One thing's for sure, the AV1's and Emeralds definitely have much better midrange quality than the JBL S38's mentioned here. Don't get me wrong, the JBL's are nice speakers and mave more bass output than the AV1's or Emeralds, but audiophile quality speakers they are not. The AV1's and Emeralds are.
As my cynical old buddy, Randy said, the Emeralds and AV1's will kick the crap out of the mass market stuff at a similar price point! (he's such an eloquent guy, ain't he?)
From eric_kl's statements about his issues with the MA's and Paradigm mini's I'd say that either the AV1's or Emeralds would be a perfect choice.
But then again, I own and have built both of them so I'm biased!
Brian

 

[peter_anderson]

Brian: i wasn't thinking that hard about it, i just don't feel a sub should be necessary for most classical music. I really enjoy the simplicity of a CD player, receiver and two speakers. Good playback of classical music shouldn't need more equipment. HT on the other hand, needs a dedicated sub. it all boils down to listening habits, i suppose, but i think for people who listen mostly to music and secondarily to HT, any bookshelf with 5.25" drivers are usually not the best fit.

a sub good enough for music for some people is a great additional cost they could probably avoid with larger bookshelves, right? not assuming erik_kl fits this, just stating.

-------------edited

the more i think about it, my listening habits demand a dedicated sub even for music, as a lot of it includes string bass and organ. the cost of subs which are good for music is the only stumbling point.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Peter,
I think a sub is mandatory with any bookshelf speaker if you want decent output below 70-80Hz. At least in this price range. Now if we were talking ACI Jaguars, you can get decent output down into the 40's. Of course, if you have a 10x12 room then you might be able to get by without a sub but I'd still prefer one, nonetheless.
As far as finding a musical sub, most manufacturers sacrifice sound quality in favor of small size. A relatively small ported sub doesn't do much of anything below 35Hz because there's absolutely no way they can be tuned lower. For this reason, there's usually a response hump in the 50Hz range. This gives good "wow factor" for HT, but sucks for music. Even the small Axiom 8" sub can't be tuned lower than 40-45Hz because of it's physical size.
As far as a low cost musical sub, the Adire Audio Rava is probably the only true contender in the $500 range.
Brian
P.S. From your edit it seems that we tend to agree now!

 

[anthony_b]

This is a very fun discussion, but the bottom line is, asking for someone's opinion on speakers is like asking a buddy to pick out a piece of "art" or a "painting" for you.
Unless you "see it" (IN THIS CASE HEAR IT),picking out speakers is the most difficult thing an audio freak can do !!..everyone has there own taste and what they are looking for in speakers. I personally like an "airy" and open soundstage in a speaker. Some may not like this....So go check out all the speakers mentioned here and let us know what you went for. (Don't get pressured into getting into the latest fad of brands you read about so much in this forum). Go with what sounds good to you and your room measurments. I own a pair of Pinnacle towers that sound awesome, and they don't get much love on this forum, but I enjoy how they sound..

 

[Gil D]

Brian Bunge,

The problem with internet brand speakers (Swan, Norh) and DIY kits(GR, Adire, etc) is that speakers are a personal choice. If you can't audition them then you have to be willing to buy first then try.

I really think that you and Danny should get together and produce a number of demo pairs that could be shipped to prospective customers for a small fee or retainer. I was dead set on trying a pair of Paradox1 and risking the $500 expenditure, but the discontinued Focals kill the deal for me considering my timeframe to aquire 5-6 units isn't immediate. I don't have much to go on with A/V1's as far as reviews and recommendations.

As for 5" woofs, I have always preferred 6.5-7" midbass drivers in the usual suspects. But my Signums or a pair of Dynaudio 1.1's that have 5" woofs mated with a sub will kick the pants off of alot of speaks with 6.5" woofs with that same sub, but granted these cost alot more. I believe some of the DIY kits get you close to these hifi speaks or perhaps even outperform them for not much money.

Gil

 

[Nathan A]

if you're a klipsch fan the RB3's can be had for around $400

 

[Tim Baldwin]

If you can consider buying used, you can get into a whole different league. Dynaudio Audience 40, Paradigm Studio Ref 20, ProAc Tablette, Acoustic Energy, Spica, Spendor, etc, etc. LOTS of options.

 

[Harold Leroy]

Another vote for Diva 2.1's. Try them in your set-up and return them if you're not satisfied.

 

[Stephen Houdek]

Brian,

Please define "audiophile" quality speaker? Midrange reproduction isn't an issue on my JBL's. I'm not trying to be aggressive here, but you seem to be saying a kit speaker with good midrange is "audiophile" quality and I'm sure that isn't what you meant!

JBL's weren't initially on my short list, but they were quickly added and I didn't find anything to change my mind. Even my long love for Klipsch speakers wouldn't change my choice. Klipsch have LONG been audiophile quality speakers and still are in my book.

K-horn.......LaScalla.....Cornwalls........Great speakers, and this piece of the technology hasn't changed that much in the past 25 years.

But this stuff is always far far far too subjective. No-one hears anything the same.......and guess what! I'll never know what your ears sound like!

All you can do is look at the spec's......and listen for yourself. I've known lots of audiophiles who could hear things that just weren't there......

 

[Brian Bunge]

Gil,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll mention that to Danny. I've got enough spare cabinets lying around right now for the AV1's that it would be pretty easy to put together an inexpensive demo unit or two. I think I have 3 pairs of cabinets now just waiting for veneer. And I've got 10 sheets of veneer!
As far as the AV1's vs. P1's I think Danny usually recommends the AV1's for HT use over the P1's. I haven't heard the P1's myself so I cannot comment. I have heard that the AV1+'s are Danny's favorite of all the kits he sells, though. I'll be trying a pair of them in my system next!
Stephen,
I define "audiophile quality speaker" as something along the lines of the PSB Stratus Mini, ACI Emerald (which really isn't a kit speaker, per se), etc. I'm really talking about 2-way bookshelves that would cost you $1K or so from a retail store. I really can't include speakers from Swans Diva or nOrh since I've never heard them. But, they very well could be placed in this category if/when I hear them.
Don't get me wrong, I like the JBL S38's very much for the price ($279, not $599). I know a guy that has them in his $40K theater (he built the room and did all the work himself) and they sounded very nice. I was really only commenting on the fact that I felt the Emeralds or AV1's had better vocal intelligibility over the S38's and that I considered them to be a better deal for the money. Even if they end up being more expensive than the S38's. The S38's definitely have better bass output, but I felt that the 8" driver had a bit of a negative effect on the midrange. I also hate cheap particle board cabinets, but I understand that sacrifices are made/corners are cut to meet a price point.
I agree, audio is very subjective and everything that I've stated in this post and this thread is merely my opinion. Luckily, folks like Randy, Jeff, and John tend to agree with me. It's always nice to take a few folks down with the sinking ship!
Brian

 

[Eujin]

If you can find them, you should definitely give the Triangle Titus a listen. These made Stereophile's list of recommended components in Class B--the only speakers in the class to come it at under $2000. I just picked up a pair yesterday, and even though they haven't been broken in yet (about 100+ hours) I can tell you that these speakers are truly wonderful and I cannot believe how little they cost. I will post more details when I've spent a little more time with them, but I can tell you that I was looking at Paradigm Studio 20s, 40s and 60s, a whole bunch of PSBs and the Titus just leaves them in the dust. The only caveat here is that bass extension is not all that deep, so if you're a bass head you might want to use a sub or find something else altogether. However, for my needs there is more than adequate bass and it's really tight, fast and accurate. A truly amazing speaker--just remember to let them break in a little or the highs will sound too bright and biting. Oh, and they image better than anything I've ever heard, with incredible detail and a wonderfullly wide AND high soundstage.

 

[stephen_z]

Ditto everything that Eugin posted! Mine are on order.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

$400 for the Triangle Titus is a bit too steep for me.

I went for the JBL S38s after hearing them at best buy. They were easily my favorite speaker that best buy had to offer. They sounded smooth and clean, even through a yamaha integrated receiver, switch board with cheap speaker wire.

After a hours of auditioning speakers such as Martin Logan Odysseys through ML monoblocks, Paradigm Studio 100s through a Pioneer Elite receiver, and Klipsch Reference series through Denon separates, I actually became more inclined to go with the JBLs. I heard a difference that I just couldn't justify with the costs.

They costed me only $245 used, and give a great bang per buck for my case. Another reason I chose the S38s is because they could easily pump out some 50hz bass from "brass monkey" (beastie boys).

If I had more money, I would have probably done a DIY and researched more speakers. Unfortunately I only had 400 to work with which I used to buy a pre-owned rotel stereo amp, and pre-owned S38 JBLs on Ebay.

 

[jeff cr]

go with the Bose 301's . had them a year now and they are awsome. i listen to a lot of classical and they sound great. don't listen to what people say on here about Bose. the 301's have great imaging and fill the whole room with sound. you can get them for $300 at the Bose stores.

 

[Dan_Jones]

Errr...Bose 301's use the Bose direct-reflect technology...how can they possibly have good imaging...?

 

[John Garcia]

A Bose SUPPORTER on this forum? That's a first, I think.

April fool's was a couple of days ago...
BTW, the 301s don't even come CLOSE to any of the speakers mentioned in this thread for the price.