blu-ray player for discs ? (1 Viewer)

[jimmyjet]

hi foxy,

yes, there is more color. and that does tend to look better.

however, are you sure that this is how the original color was ?

might the italian version placed some coloring in it ?

 

[FoxyMulder]

hi foxy,

yes, there is more color. and that does tend to look better.

however, are you sure that this is how the original color was ?

might the italian version placed some coloring in it ?

Look at the first two films put out by MGM, they look more like the Italian release of the third film, MGM messed up the transfer of the third movie, also it's not just colour, there is extra fine detail in the Italian version, indeed much more detail present.

Indeed what colour is sand, well we know that, take a look at the cap below.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=3718&cap2=3705&art=full&image=6&cID=664&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

Look at what using an old outdated master filled with DNR does, it's blurryvision, then look at the Italian cap and all that fine detail.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=3716&cap2=3703&art=full&image=4&cID=664&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

I'm not saying the Italian release is perfect, but its night and day compared to the MGM one.

 

[jimmyjet]

graininess definitely bugs me - i think to a point that i would even be willing to sacrifice some color to get rid of it.

of course, best to have bright color without grain !!!

 

[jimmyjet]

i just finished the magnificent 7 from mgm.

there was just a little bit of graininess. but not much.

some things i am coming to realize

1) graininess actually fatigues my eyes. lack of it has just the opposite effect.

2) worse graininess seems to be the skies.

3) clarity of the picture is pretty important to me.

4) especially the faces - i think because the characters are mostly what make up the story.

5) when i see the color i missed, that is one thing. but while i am watching the show, there is still enough color, that not having more of it does not really affect my viewing of it.

6) i was watching a youtube video about some guy dissing dnr. i didnt even know what it was, but its main effect is to get rid of the graininess. the video was explaining that graininess is a part of old film.

7) in years past, they used to have tvs with what they called a "soft image". i couldnt stand it - everything was fuzzy. was prevalent on the big screen tvs at the time.

 

[FoxyMulder]

@Jimmy

I have a question for you, have you calibrated your television set or projector system, if you haven't then you might be seeing "enhanced" film grain which can look very bad, calibration means getting all the settings correct so you are seeing what was intended when viewing your discs, sharpness and contrast in particular can be too high and result in major issues, lowering sharpness removes issues with film grain and means no edge enhancement halo's to worry about, getting contrast and brightness spot on means shadow detail is retained and you see everything as intended.

DNR is very bad, film grain is very good to retain, i don't understand anyone that wants to remove something which is an integral part of the original image, might as well stick to watching the DVD format because that used DNR frequently, with blu ray it's HD, you want the HD detail retained, to retain it you need to keep the film grain intact, removing the film grain ( yes, even Lowry ) removes the film look and fine detail and makes blu ray pointless, this is just my opinion.

Did you check the screencaps above of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, did you see the additional fine detail and see how blurry it was on the MGM blu ray, the blurriness is due to DNR removing all the detail, it also makes things blurry, light handed use of DNR can be effective, overuse can be very damaging to the image.

Also please keep in mind that a screencap that shows a movie with film grain is static, it's 1 frame of 24 for that second of film, in motion the film grain moves as it is a part of the image and is not detrimental, it should not be noticed in a bad way like you do on a static screencap.

 

[jimmyjet]

i went thru the settings when i got the tv. everything seemed to be fine at the time.

i suspect that what is pleasing to our respective eyes may be different.

i grew up with the old analog tv resolution. 240 ?

so dvds are already a real treat for me, regarding picture clarity.

but my eyes simply do not like flicker, when compared to not having flicker.

i would much prefer dvd resolution with zero flicker.

however, i still see flicker on dvds on these tv shows.

so i am in no way saying that the flicker on blu-ray is worse than dvd. it probably is even better.

i am relatively pleased with these blu-rays that i have viewed. butch simply was quite a bit grainier than the other two. however, it was still very enjoyable for me.

 

[jimmyjet]

hi foxy,

i just finished watching "think like a man"

i dont know anything about current movies, but it went on sale, and sounded like it might be interesting, so i bought it.

it was really cute - all about the silly games that men and women play.

i knew i had seen kristen before, but i could not figure out who she was, until i looked her up on net. her role in seventh heaven is where i remember her from.

regarding this movie - i was real irritated at being forced to wait over 5 minutes, while sony played trailers for other shows. i wanted to wring their necks. it is one thing to put it on the disk. another when it starts playing when you hit play for the movie.

second thing i learned - film is 100% of the problem i have with viewing anything old, which is mostly what i want to watch. the actual clarity of this was wonderful !!!

this was made i think 2012, and it looks like glass. this is how i want my movies to look !!!!!

i would certainly be willing to give up some color for a video-looking display.

perhaps someday they will come up with something that can totally get rid of the graininess ???

 

[schan1269]

"perhaps someday they will come up with something that can totally get rid of the graininess ???"

They already have. It is called DNR in a TV. Lots of TV have it as a feature. And many LCD that have 240hz and "other tricks" have ways to make all your movies(DVD, BD or OTA) look like a soap opera.

 

[FoxyMulder]

i went thru the settings when i got the tv. everything seemed to be fine at the time.

i suspect that what is pleasing to our respective eyes may be different.

i grew up with the old analog tv resolution. 240 ?

so dvds are already a real treat for me, regarding picture clarity.

but my eyes simply do not like flicker, when compared to not having flicker.

i would much prefer dvd resolution with zero flicker.

however, i still see flicker on dvds on these tv shows.

so i am in no way saying that the flicker on blu-ray is worse than dvd. it probably is even better.

i am relatively pleased with these blu-rays that i have viewed. butch simply was quite a bit grainier than the other two. however, it was still very enjoyable for me.

I meant to ask you something, what is the size of your television and how far do you sit from it, also how did you set everything up, was it by eye. ?

Incidentally i too lived through the analog age, i still appreciate the film look and actually dislike that super clean look, the film Think Like A Man was shot using digital camera's, i believe the Red Epic and that's why it looks so clean.

Here is a list of films shot using digital cameras, many will have the look you desire, some will not. ( Miami Vice as an example )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_digital

 

[jimmyjet]

hi foxy,

my tv is an insignia. i know they at least used to measure tvs diagonally ?

but it is about 27 by 15, rectangular measurements.

i am about 5 feet from the screen.

i just watched one of my all time favorites - casablanca.

it was released by warner home video. blu-ray.

i certainly enjoyed it. even if film does have some graininess, watching it on blu-ray or dvd is so much better than i had ever seen it before.

i was pretty sure that rick did not get on the plane at the end, but i couldnt remember for sure !!!!!

i got a double feature. so i will be watching another tomorrow - the african queen.

then i will go for the double feature of ben-hur and the ten commandments.

they always used to play the ten commandments at easter time on tv, so i have seen that dozens of times.

but i dont think i have seen ben-hur since i was a very young boy. but i can still recall that chariot race at the movie theatre !!!!!

 

[jimmyjet]

i guess i just looked at it. but quite frankly, there was nothing to set up. i know i did not change anything.

and if i recall, the default stuff was pretty normal.

but if i was having any problems with the tv, i would think that those same problems would have occurred with the video blu-ray. that played like glass.

so far, butch was the only one that did have some irritating graininess here and there.

but not enough that i did not enjoy watching it.

i dont plan to spend a lot on blu-ray disks.

but i do plan to buy them if they go on sale for a low price.

i am buying a lot of these for 5-7 a disk.

i can only watch so many at a time. so that works pretty well. a few here and there will add up over the years.

 

[jimmyjet]

you say that you dislike that look ?

boy, i would think that so few people would prefer the film look to the video look - that i am surprised that they would still use film ?

 

[Mark-P]

Gee, I wonder if Jimmy would love the original Patton blu-ray?

 

[jimmyjet]

hi mark,

i dont get the joke - there must have been something about the patton blu-ray that rose a bit of a ruckus ?

 

[Mark-P]

hi mark,

i dont get the joke - there must have been something about the patton blu-ray that rose a bit of a ruckus ?

Oh yeah. A very big ruckus indeed. Unfortunately the original thread is no longer accessible.

 

[jimmyjet]

just finished african queen. gosh, it was quite clear. i guess there will always be some graininess.


but i have never seen these movies this clear before. most of this stuff i had only seen on tv.

but even in the movie theatres - would it have been as clear as what i am currently viewing ?

i cant really make a statement yet about dvd versus blu-ray - cuz to really do so, i need to see the same thing in both formats.

all my tv shows are on dvd. and the few movies that i have recently watched are all on blu-ray.

i just recently purchased fiddler on the roof. and the package has both a blu-ray and dvd. so when that arrives, i can see what sort of differences i can make out.

if enough, i will continue to buy many movies on blu-ray.

but for me, no matter what i watch, it is almost always the emotional feeling i get from the story that is being told.

everything is so much clearer than i have ever seen it. so i pretty much already know that i dont need blu-ray to thoroughly enjoy the movies.

when all you know is the ocean, one can be disappointed when thrown back in the lake.

but when you are used to a swimming pool, both the lake and the ocean are so much better, that one is happy with either one - LOL.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Gee, I wonder if Jimmy would love the original Patton blu-ray?

hi mark,

i dont get the joke - there must have been something about the patton blu-ray that rose a bit of a ruckus ?

To sum up the ruckus, it was the opinion of many HTF'rs that excessive DNR has been used. This removed details and made the actors' faces look waxy. Oh yeah, not many fans of that disc here.

If I can also sum up the credo of many, many HTF'rs....They want the theatrical experience replicated as closely as possible. This means film should look like film and many do not want the audio updated or at least they want the choice of choosing the original audio.

Jimmy, I'm going to guess that your tastes differ from most on this forum. Perhaps you'll come over to the Dark Side with us. There are members here that are in the film business and know what a movie should look and sound like. There are members here that are home theater ENTHUSIASTS. IMHO, there are members here that sometimes go over the edge in their demands of what a movie should look like on blu-ray. I don't consider myself a member of those three groups but I have raised my expectations considerably because of The Home Theater Forum.

If there are members here who want to put you down, that says more about them than you. I suggest developing a thicker skin. That said, if you were to go to other home theater sites you would find a coarser and less polite discussion. This site is diligently moderated and personal attacks will be shut down.

I'm an old fart and grew up with movies on film and black and white tv in the 50's. I'm going to want film to look like film. I have to admit I can't remember exactly how a movie looked in the theater 50, 40, or 10 years ago. And even that's not consistent. One theater cares about the presentation and another doesn't.

I also gather you are price sensitive as am I. I think I mentioned it early in the post, but will do so again. I love camelcamelcamel.com for monitoring prices on Amazon. It also works on other merchants but I just used it for Amazon. Highly recommended. And it's free.

Welcome to the HTF. Remember, no religion and no politics can be discussed here. Though I think for some here, the discussion of the proper presentation of a movie on blu-ray rises to a religious fervor.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Welcome to the HTF. Remember, no religion and no politics can be discussed here. Though I think for some here, the discussion of the proper presentation of a movie on blu-ray rises to a religious fervor.

That would be me.

 

[jimmyjet]

hi johnny,

some of the guys were teasing me, cuz i had never heard of criterion. but it was all in good fun.

you are correct though - in that i am pretty sure that i am nowhere near as picky as the average person here on this forum.

i am certainly no photographer, film-maker, etc.

in fact, i may be in the opposite boat. as i guess i actually like the dnr, most likely. i hate all the flicker. so i am willing to sacrifice a fair amount of color to get rid of it.

i love all the old stuff, and all that is basically on film of some sort - so that is just something that i need to live with.

but all these movies i have been watching are quite good. butch is the only one that had some annoying flicker in it. but even that was not enough to keep me from liking it.

 

[Johnny Angell]

When you say flicker, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean a rapid change from light to dark so that the screen actually flickers? Or are you talking about film grain which could give the film a "coarse" look, but that wouldn't be a flicker.

I don't recall reading the Butch had flicker. I don't have the disc so I can't comment on it from experience.