Black Diamond Racing Cones work. Believe it.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ryan Tsang, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    First and foremost, I am not a tweaker. I can't tell between digital cables. I've tried power cords and they've failed to capture my attention. I have had Audioquest's Little Feet, and I'm not sure if I heard anything there. I can't tell between video cables either. But these carbon fiber cones are a marvel. Don't ask me how or why it works. It's not soft and cushy to absorb shock...they don't end in pointy tips to pierce into your racks. They just work. a little history first.....


    I bought these cones three years ago, in a time when I was heavily into A/V and I was tweaking alot more. I was upgrading left and right, believing with each purchase that I was hearing differences that justified the expense. I concluded that BDR cones tightened up the bass dramatically, easily heard with Natalie Merchant's "Tigerlily." After graduation, I lost interest in A/V and I stopped posting here. I ended up taking two years off. I stopped listening critically, stopped reading mags, and I stopped buying gear altogether.


    Well, I'm back. A post in the Source forum re: difference between transports prompted me to do a test of my own this morning, to see if I can hear differences. I found that although my Arcam Alpha 7 cd player was somewhat better in the bass than my Onkyo DVD changer as transports, the BDR cones under the Arcam provided the highlight of the day. Sometimes, differences can be so subtle that you could convince yourself you're hearing it even if you're not. I know what that feels like. But not these cones. The bass was so much tighter on Leftfield's "Leftism" - track 2, it was unmistakable. Each thump of the drum machine was punchy, distinct and focused between the speakers. However, non-bassy tracks made it hard to tell if I was using cones or not. It made no differences to me for the trebles or vocals. $25cdn each and you need three. A cd player $80 more would not buy you this increase in performance. Anybody in the Winnipeg area wants a demo, I'd be glad to do one. I'd love to confirm that I'm not imagining this.
     
  2. Darrel McBane

    Darrel McBane Second Unit

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    An audio dealer loaned me some BDR "cones", "those things" and "pucks" a few years ago and told me to play with them for a couple of weeks. They were #3 and #4 sets each. He recommended I start with just the "cones" under my CD player and build up from there. And to give each addition some time before I changed or added to them. He also recommended to place them under motors or transports. I was surprised how the "cones" by them self seemed to smooth the sound down. As I added the next piece "those things" under the cones and then the "pucks" to finally make a stack under the CD player. I was amazed at what was happening. It was as if I was listening to a completely different piece of equipment. I ended up buying on the used market several sets and use them today under my Preamp/Processor and CD player. These are one of those tweak items people say can't do anything. But, somehow do.
     
  3. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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    I personally use those spondgy rubber half ball door handle stoppers that you get from Canadian Tire for $6 for 4. Would you be willing to pick some up and test them against the cones. I'd like to know if they match up. You could always take them back once your done.

    Here's a link

    http://www.madicoinc.com/en/product....t=240&lang=_en

    Its the third picture down on the left.

    Kevin
     
  4. Hank

    Hank Guest

    I've been using BDR cones for 3 years now under my Sony SACD player. These are the best isolation cones out there. I'm using MK III versions. I have one cone directly under the transport drive. I would love to try BDR The Shelf also but at $445 I don't see it happening soon.[​IMG]
     
  5. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    Hank,

    As I was lurking on this thread, I read your post and am curious why you chose the III series over the IV for the Sony SACD player?? I own the 555ES.

    You just placed the cone under the transport drive, rather then on the feet itself? I was thinking of using one for each foot on the player. Your idea might save me a bit of money.

    Thanks to the initial post, I might give these a bash just to see what difference occurs.

    Thank you,
    Charles
     
  6. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    Chas T:

    I think it is best not to put one cone under each foot. I think the Cones are designed to be in contact with the chassis. Otherwise, the player's feet would affect the cones' performance. The four corners are not the critical areas anyway. My recommendation is to put one under the power supply, one under the tranport, and the other to balance the unit out.

    A good dealer should lend them out. Get four of them and try out all possibilities. I chose Mk IV's because they are supposed to be not as warm as Mk III's. I think my Hales Revelation Two's are warm enough.

    BTW, I have three under my pre/pro as well.



    Hank:

    how do you use just one? The SACD's feet can't be that tall, can they?
     
  7. Hank

    Hank Guest

    Chas,

    Ryan is correct. Whenever you use isolation cones, pucks etc. always place them in direct contact with the chasis. I use 3 BDR cones under my 777ES. When you buy a set of BDR cones it is 3 cones, not 4. As to why I use MK III, that is what my dealer recommended for me.
     
  8. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    Ryan and Hank:

    Thank you both for your insights. I'll give them a bash in the next few weeks!!

    Cheers,
    Charles
     
  9. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    Ryan Tsang,

    Did you notice any difference with the cones under your pre/pro?
     
  10. Nelson T

    Nelson T Extra

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    Hi Ryan,

    Where did you pick up your BDR cones in Winnipeg?
     
  11. Geoff H

    Geoff H Stunt Coordinator

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    I spoke with the person who invented/produces the cones, (forgot his name, sorry, sorry, sorry) he said that the III's are USUALLY used under solid state stuff and the IV's are recommended for tube gear. The III's give a "warmer sound" whereas the IV's are more 'linear".

    Having said all that, I've read where people prefer the IV's with their CD players, DAC's Pre Amps etc. over the IV's.

    Online in Canada try Here

    U.S. Here
     
  12. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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  13. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    Ron:

    I should conduct a test to discern the effect of the cones under my pre-pro, and see if the effect is as obvious as what I heard from the cd player. I'll get back to you some time. If I remember correctly, I tried cones under my power amp as well as the pre, and it got to the point that the bass became so "tight", it was too lean.

    I've been asked to try them under my speakers vs the spikes that they came with. Didn't work for me.

    As for III's vs IV's, I don't dare to say that I can tell the difference. It's been a very long time since I've compared the two. Even then, I'm thinking the difference are very subtle and I'm scared I may be imagining things.


    Nelson:

    Creative Audio
     
  14. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    Ryan,

    Thanks for the info!

    I agree...I'd imagine that you would be able to discern more of a difference with the cones under your CD player (due to the moving parts) than under your pre/pro.
     
  15. Darrel McBane

    Darrel McBane Second Unit

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    Like Ryan, I couldn't say I heard a difference in my system between the #3 and #4 cones and the rest of the BDR pieces. I mixed and matched just about ever combination. And could only hear a difference as I added the pucks and those things to the cones. I would also say the biggest impact was when I use them under the Preamp/Processor. I have them under my CD player as well. But, the Preamp/Processor just got a smoother sound.
     
  16. Greg-ST

    Greg-ST Stunt Coordinator

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    I want to see if anyone else can confirm this for me.

    I don't have any of these cones but I'll probably be buying some in the near future when I upgrade my system a little more. Just for fun I thought I would try something else in the meantime. I decided to try plain old corks for bottles (had a package of various sizes in the drawer). Now, I don't know if it's just the placebo effect or if it actually does help to a degree, but it really does sound like the bass has gotten a bit tighter when I put them under my receiver.

    I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was just me though [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  17. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    I got some of the MK III cones last week and although I'm not sure if it's psychoacoustic or what, but I did sense a very slight warming of the sound. However, this could also be attributed to the pre/pro breaking in a bit more...
     
  18. James Zos

    James Zos Supporting Actor

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    I am skeptical about such things. I'm not trying to say that those who say they've heard an improvement are wrong. If you hear an improvement you hear an improvement.
    But I have personally learned that I can not always trust my own ears.
    For instance, on at least one occasion I made a change in my system involving cables, then sat back and listened and detected what seemed like an obvious improvement in the sound. I was very happy until I realized that I hadn't actually made the change I thought I had, and that my system was exactly the same as it was before I "heard" the improvement.
    This taught me that the power of suggestion is very strong, especially when you are talking about subtle changes in sound.
    It would be interesting to see someone with cones experiment, having a friend switch them in and out, to see if you can correctly identify the difference.
     
  19. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    just make sure you're blindfolded when you do that [​IMG]
     

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