Big Love Season 4 (Jan 10) (1 Viewer)

[Mikah Cerucco]

There is all kinds of built in organic drama inherent in the situation. When it comes to how we all view love and sex, that's universal. Because it's different, who wouldn't want to know how 2 men and 4 women deal with the practical day to day issues? Plural marriage. Polygamy. Swingers. Paganism. And probably a few more I'm forgetting. I've seen all kinds of models outside of 1 man, 1 woman, in marriage... forever. And really, our society doesn't really expect that, we just have to say it in polite company and all pretend.

Big Love "Family 2" sounds quite interesting, except for two things that immediately come to mind:

1) The three wives are well cast. I watch Big Love for the wives as much as (or more) for Bill.

2) The show has gone to great lengths to basically say Bill is the best Utah polygamy has to offer. There's Bill's friend, but his marriage is broken up. Other than that, the show has never shown us any others. Where would they come from... also Juniper Creek? There are some shows (L&O, CSI) where they say the formula is the star, not the actors. I'm not sure this is that type of show.

Stealing eggs from younger women and implanting them into older women? Well there you go. But at least we got to see someone's arm cut off. Yay. The more I think about it, the more I'm getting nostalgic over your Family 2 idea. If they were to do it, I'd hope they'd integrate it into what we already know as opposed to a complete retcon.

 

[Tim Gerdes]

Originally Posted by mattCR

The thing about Big Love that I appreciated in the early first season was that I thought this could be a daring re-look at a social taboo. Penn & Teller took this on in "Bullshit!" and I thought this could be evaluated differently. With Bill having a set of wives who joined their arrangement fully aware, as adults, who made a knowledgable decision without cohersion, etc.

Bill brought this up in his "speech" on the steps. But the show has derailed from the first few seasons and the promise of a truly radical approach to the world. In the first two seasons, you had a lot of the things I found interesting.. co-parenting, the debates about what happens next, treatment of each other as peers. I thought that social drama was significant, interesting and was fun to watch.

You make some very interesting and valid points. While I enjoyed season 4, I felt it was uneven, though mostly because the plot with Greenes was poorly resolved and the harvested eggs subplot seemed to come out of nowhere. On the other hand and as I've mentioned before, I feel that Bill's character arc remains both compelling and fairly believable. I read somewhere recently, though I can't remember where, that Bill's story is basically the creation of a villain. I don't know that I'd go quite that far, but like the Godfather Part II, Big Love has been documenting it's protagonist's corruption and fall. I remain convinced that the show will end with Bill installed as the new prophet of Juniper Creek, and think that much of the reckless behavior surrounding his election bid (outing themselves, Margie lying to INS, etc.) are character flaws, not writing flaws, designed to push the characters to Juniper Creek as a last refuge. I'm certain Bill will be removed from office, and that Home Plus, and perhaps Margie's business, will be ruined. This leaves the casino, but with new enemies in both the tribe, and in their political backers, I wonder how long they'll be able to hold onto this as well. You mention the idea of exploring polygamy as a social taboo, and I too would be interested in a show like that. On the other hand, one of the most interesting aspect's of Bill's character is that he genuinely believes in "the principle." Unlike Roman or the Greenes, who all seem to be egomaniacs knowingly perpetrating a fraud, Bill believes he is righteous. The show you describe would be an interesting take on the concept of polygamy, to be sure. But because of the religious element, it would impossible to reconcile with these characters. I would argue, too, that the reason Bill and his wives seem to be having marital problems is that while they all entered their relationships without coercion, we've learned that ultimately they do not believe "the principle" in the same way that Bill does. Their recent conflicts are not about polygamy as a concept, but ultimately about differences of faith. In addition to the religious element, I believe there is one other aspect of this season which bears mention. The creators of Big Love, Will Scheffer and Mark V. Olsen are openly gay. I don't think it's a coincidence that Bill's arc has been, in part, about living out in the open, and the corrosive nature of the closet. Now perhaps this isn't the take on polygamy that you want to see. And maybe the show you've proposed would be an even more provocative exploration of plural marriage. But Bill's story is about more than his relationship with his wives. For me, the complexities of Bill's faith and his desire to escape from his closeted lifestyle remain compelling and watchable.

 

[Quentin]

I think I side with Matt and Mikah. I really liked this show when we had wives meetings and an attempt to make this odd lifestyle work despite the difficult logistics (sharing nights, child care, etc.).

There were secrets, and conflicts, and the problem of living closeted...and, of course, the shadow of Roman hanging over them. But, at the core, the 'family' (not a traditional one, but a family) stuck together and pressed on. And, Bill was the leader of that family and he cared about them.

The two big things that were missing this (horrible) season were 1) Bill's understanding and selflessness. Sure, he often got off the rails, but he always came back to the family and found his way. This season and part of last he really became tunnel-visioned and only cared about his own thing. Utterly selfish and someone I could no longer root for. 2) In a word, love. In the past, despite conflicts, secrets, etc. there was always this bond of love with the wives and Bill..but, especially with the wives. Despite their fights, they always figured out things together, as a team. This year? They're all on their own, doing their own thing. It was simply not fun to watch.

Is it realistic? Maybe. Is it on purpose? I dunno...perhaps it is. But, it is NOT what I originally enjoyed about the show. It's no different from any other bickering, backstabbing soap opera. And, it's not the characters I came to enjoy prior to this.

I certainly hope that the challenges and attacks from the outside make the Hendricksen's bond again next season. Looking at them on those steps gives promise. But, if it continues to spiral in the direction this season went I won't be a fan for much longer.

 

[Patrick Sun]

What a Custerfluck this season has been!

 

[mattCR]

You had mentioned above the fact that the season lacked "Love".. you know, I think that may be the best description.

I was thinking about how good Chloe Sveginy has been in this, and I was reminded of the story in the first season of how she became the second wife. That nearing death, battling cancer, Barb and Bill took her in to help her in her last days, and when she recovered, they were too close to let her go, and decided that it was a sign from god for them to follow "The Principle".

It was a really solid, understandable backstory that connected the two together. While you may have moral disagreements, it was the kind of story the audience could feel for. And then, they could also realize that she was a character who had a much different background, and that "The Principle" was always part of her life and plan, whle it was a struggle for Barb.

Barb's struggle continued as a member of the community. The story was good; it was that they had accepted each other, and had fought for their way of life against opposition on both sides. It was a show about walking a tight rope. And with Roman Grant, it had a real villain that was understandable. It also made it clear that they were not "the bad guys" that society felt they were, but Roman sure was, and they would do anything to get away from them. Most of their show was about the struggle to get away from the idea of the compound.

It's what made this season so bad, that the "love" factor, the "us against the world" angle went into a complete spiral.

And, as far as realistic, the show has piled on so many crazy situations that are impossible to buy. You could buy Roman as a canniving bad guy who twisted money and those around him to make life hell. But nothing Roman did struck you as beyond the possible or completely phony. This season stretched everything into ridiculousness. How they whipped out a forced IVF of crossbred children in a single hour may be one of the stupidest plots ever on TV. Except for the fact that they were busted for smuggling parrots into Mexico for money by the Greenes.. who they later hacked the arm off of in a clean slice from an elderly woman with a dull knife.. look, I've lived on a farm. You can't even chop a pig in one slice like that, and the bones aren't near as thick.

The show just lost the angle of "Love", family standing up for each other.. it drove into "these people are all loonies" which just isn't entertaining. It's almost as though Big Love acquired some of the writers from "Weeds". And what works on Weeds doesn't necessarily fly on Big Love.. two different concepts.