B&K Reference 50 processor whine... (1 Viewer)

[Frances_H]

Mark,
Happy Easter to you too! I received my unit this past week, had set them up and calibrated to some degree. I noticed the whine on the left surround, when there is no source, is there. Interestingly enough, it's only present on this left surround. I wonder if it was more of the design inconsistency? Having said that, I was fully prepared for it, thanks to the forum such as this to prepare me for this. I am accepting this fact from the get go, since it sounds sooo good otherwise. And, for the money, it compares to nothing in its price range. So, at this point, I am just curious if the level of whine will get worse as I am "burning in" the system. Would be very interested to your shoot out with the Rotel, since my second system is a Rotel 1065, it's not exactly a fair comparison, and I am happy with the overall Rotel experience too. Fyi, I paired ref50 with av125.7 connected with XLR balanced, driving the Polk LSi all the around (15/center/fx/7). Keep your review coming, valued your comments. Thanks,

Frances

 

[Frances_H]

Observation on the "whine" of the left surround:

- It stays in that channel only, I checked the rest of the 6.1 speakers, nada. btw, I have to stick my ears pretty close to the tweeter to hear it.

- It's level is inconsistent, i.e, doesn't present continuously at the same level. It almost led one to believe that it's software dependent (perhaps) rather than electronic design. If I switched sourced around, say from DVD-A to SAT, DVD Music to DVD-A (using DVD Presets page 2), the whine might resurfaced or may not.
Update: If I put in 2 channel source, the whine is present on LS, but if I switched the mode to music (i.e. PL2 MUS 7) the whine dissapears. It led me to think that the whine is a bleed electronic noise when there is no source presents.

Albert Damico,
If you still follow this thread, I wonder what have changed of your system, at the time you responded back to this thread, with no whine verdict, and later on you had indicated you had the whine. I am just curious if the whine will actually gets worse. At this level, I am very content with the whine level, but if it gets worse, then that's a different story. Thanks, fh

 

[John Beavers]

I decided to check for the whine on my Ref 50 this weekend. Sure enough, in standby mode, at just below reference level I get a slight whine out of my rear channels, and anything above reference level that whine becomes extremely loud. I've contacted my dealer about it; though from a previous post here, I see that even replacements still have a slight whine. I wonder if it's worth the effort to get the replacement, since this whine does not seem to be effecting the audio quality when playing discs...then again I rarely approach reference audio levels.

 

[Frances_H]

John,
I wonder the same thing. Right now, I don't feel like to swap the unit, since I think the chance for getting a completely no-whine unit is very remote, or slim to none, and I am very content with the other overall features of this unit, not to mention its sound quality. I do hope that, with the free upgrade option (for the next processor), and/or firmware upgrade, the issue will dissapear within the next 6 months (with firmware) fh

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

John,
Please help me out here understanding your post.

Sure enough, in standby mode, at just below reference level

In standby mode it should be well below Reference level as
the ref50 would be for most practical purposes off with ZERO output to the amps?
Standby mode is off awaiting power-on via remote or press of the sleep button, with the main power button depressed.

 

[John Beavers]

Jerry,

Sorry about that, I didn't mean standby mode, I meant power on but no source outputing signal to the processor.

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

Thanks John,
I was about ready to call Jerry or George at B&K for you to see if I could get them to ship you a replacement ASAP. It's not that I have much pull with them, But the way I FIRST read your post I figured you had some real problems.
Now that I read it again, I should have guessed you meant with no active source.
I have yet to find someone local that has this noise.
I have one of the 1st Ref50's off the production line and have found ZERO noise with my unit.
Although my order went in last September 02 during or just prior to CEDIA.
If anyone in the Twin Cities area has noise with their personal Ref50, Please drop me a PM if your willing to give a personal audition of this noise at your place.
To any of those that have this noise, Do you have any noise in the headphone output jack?

 

[AVspec]

Just finished comparing the Ref50 and the Rotel 1066.

For multi-channel listening they are very close. For two channel listening I give the edge to the Ref50 but I think the Ref50 would do much better for two channel playback with better speakers up front as I am currently using JBL S36's up front which are more geared to surround use but sound darn good even used for mains, especially for multi-channel playback.

With material like Star Wars TAOTC and Hi-Def Atlantis both Pre/Pro’s performed excellently and if I were blind folded I am not sure I could tell them apart.

Now to be fair we only had the B&K setup for standard 6.1 playback as the Rotel does not have THX Ultra 2 processing that allows for splitting up the back left and right sound information.

As far as processor noise, again with material playing both sounded the same. With no material playing the Rotel goes into a mute mode so you hear no sound out of the speakers but the Ref50, as already stated, does not have this mute circuitry (as with all B&K processors) and thus at very high volumes (well above reference level) you can hear the “whine”.

Both units were calibrated to reference level using an IVIE 30A Audio Analyzer.

The Ref50 was hooked to QSC EX Pro amps using balanced cables.

The Rotel was hooked to the QSC EX Pro amps using RCA to XLR unbalanced cables.

Swapping of connections was done on the QSC amps thanks to the quick change XLR connectors.

Speakers used: JBL Studio Monitor S36's all around with a S-Center for the front center and SVS subs up front and a Definitive Tech sub in back.

As always,YMMV.

 

[John Beavers]

But the way I FIRST read your post I figured you had some real problems.

Jerry,

Thanks for considering calling B&K for me. I'm sure my dealer will work out the best solution for me. He's really good at taking care of the customer after the sell.

As for it being a real problem, I just don't know. Could the processor whine be effecting the overall S/N ratio with the unit? Not knowing exactly what it is, and what it could be effecting with an active signal...I could put on some acoustic guitar music, and push the processor volume towards reference...but man would that ever be LOUD. I usally listen around -170. To push it to "0" would be intense

 

[John Beavers]

Well, I made it to -50 before I whimped out That was so far beyond a volume level that I would ever listen to that pushing it any further would have served no purpose. And no processor "whine" was apparent in the rear speakers at that volume level, just really beautiful music coming out there. If my unit is listed on the serial number list that was talked about earlier I will exchange it, but based on actual music listening, there's really no audible reason to return it.

Curiously though, the "whine", when on "idle" (power on, but no source output), was not as loud tonight as it was last night. In fact pushing the volume upwards of "reference", which produced a very sharp increase in the loudness of the whine last night, did not do so to that extent tonight. However something new was added to the situation. I heard "clicks" every time I increased the volume a notch. This only from the rear speakers. Weird! But again, in actual listening, everything sounds wonderful.

 

[John Beavers]

I heard back from my dealer. He says the recall was on units that were locking up. A capacitor value on a small batch of units caused the lock-up issue. He also said that ALL units have the "whine", including ones that are shipping today. So I will be keeping mine, since there is no issue during actual playback.

 

[Albert Damico]

For an update on my unit. I returned my B&K Ref 50, despite the fact that B&K believed that nothing was wrong with it. They believed the whine was normal. What they found was that the ribbon to the digital board was not connected, that the digital board was not grounded properly and there was a short in the SVS out. I have no idea what these issues may or may not have had with the whine I was hearing during souce playback, but when I get the unit back in my poccession, I will post.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I've been following this thread closely, and it has helped me decide that I will purchase the Parasound C 2.

Hope you B&K Ref 50 owners get any issues resolved soon!

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

No B&K Ref50 issues here

 

[Donnie Eldridge]

For those of you unaware V1.04 just came out. My unit is currently getting this update from V1.00 .

Jerry, did you ever find out whats different from V1.03?

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

Donnie,
I have been to busy & lazy to pick up the phone & call them :frowning:

 

[Frances_H]

Would B&K send an upgrade file for this (like Rotel do)? I have v1.03 and would definitely be interested on the upgrade, but not interested in shipping the unit back for it. Thanks for any information, gents!

 

[Roger Kaufmann]

Frances,

Your local dealer can do the upgrade, no need to ship it to B&K. Upgrades are only done by the dealer & B&K though, B&K's policy is different. I'm not sure why that is the case but I'm sure B&K has valid reasons.

 

[Frances_H]

Roger,
thanks for the info. Btw, thanks for your supports in the past, I am very satisfied with the 50 and 125.7 combo. So, when you said it's only being done by local dealer, would it constitute warranty work? I didn't buy the unit locally, but it came from an out of state authorized dealer. I did enough business with a local Tweeter that I can see taking the unit there. But, I am sure they will give me a dirty look when this upgrade thing is being perceived as a courtesy request as opposed to warranty work.

 

[Roger Kaufmann]

Frances,

Your welcome! I understand the upgrades from 1.0X to 1.04 are a no charge item, I would suggest speaking to your local Tweeter and see what they can do for you. I also purchased mine from an out of state authorized dealer, when I asked B&K the same question they recommended sending it directly to them. Obviously this is a disadvantage to buying out of the area.

Before going to the hassle of upgrading I'd suggest calling B&K and asking what the difference is between 1.03 and 1.04. I work in Silicon Valley (now known as Layoff Valley) and when a software vendor makes a change with such a small number it's usually just bug fixes for a specific problem that affect very specific customers. For example customer has the DELTA GAMMA RAY 120000 (obviously a made up product), with Version 6.00021 software, this causes 1/3rd of his Matsobotchy Plasma to be blank. So anyone that has that specific combination would benefit from the upgrade. I think you may find the upgrade won't be worth the hassle however I could be wrong as I haven't taken the time to contact B&K. Personally I live by the rule "If it ain't broke don't fix it."