Anyone else peeved by the shameless "music video" at the end of last night's Buffy??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dave Mack, Mar 20, 2002.

  1. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Man, that was bad. And VERY unsubtle!
    I mean, if they are pushing this new "artist" for soundtrack sales or just a very overt product placement by a merged record label, it didn't fit, had NOTHING to do with the actual plot and was LONG and DULL!
    I know Maury Povich is cross-promoting USA TV movies lately, (same owner, I believe...) but Buffy?!?!?!?
    Agh! What's next???
    LAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!
    How did this appear in script? Cut between slow pans and medium shots of various cast looking depressed with shots of singer playing mindless, OBVIOUS tune....
    Repeat for length of ENTIRE song!!!!!!
    Sorry Y'all, just let down...
    D
     
  2. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Ok Y'all!
    Before I get potentially flamed, I didn't know last nite's was a repeat. This might have been discussed before so I apologize. I haven't had too much time this season, and with the exceptions of the "musical" and the season premiere, the episodes I caught did not exactly take my breath away. Last season I was on the edge of my seat!
    This year, well..........
    Peace again! Still thought the end was LAME last nite tho..!
    D
     
  3. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Dave, it's not the first time they've used a montage. Joss has never pushed artists, and I doubt he'd start now. They just chose a song that was appropriate to cover a multitude of events.

    This episode dealt with the musical fallout, and the montage was appropriate.
     
  4. Robert Ringwald

    Robert Ringwald Cinematographer

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    Very appropriate.

    If they were trying to use her to gain ratings then it would have mentioned her somewhere.

    I didn't even notice it was her until it was over, and I actually like the scene.

    It did have to do with the story, and a similar tactic was used in "The harsh light of day." (season 4, episode 3) as all the girls on the show walk alone at the end.

    It was a sad moment, the break-up of a long lasting couple, the leaving of Giles, and the first kiss between Buffy and Spike that she couldn't blame on something else.
     
  5. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    I'm not enduring this season's episodes twice, so I didn't tune in last night. But is this something different from the first airing? Is it some kind of stand-alone music video? If so, whose music video?

    (I'm pretty sure I'm glad I missed it, but still curious of course!)
     
  6. Scott Littlefield

    Scott Littlefield Stunt Coordinator

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    Rich,

    It was the same as the first broadcast, Michelle Branch performing "Goodbye To You".

    And, sorry Dave, it wasn't the first time Buffy has used music over a montage, and this one was absolutely perfect. It's a shame you didn't listen to the lyrics and compare them to the events in the show. You missed out on a really poignant moment.
     
  7. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

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    Big deal, this happened on "Beverly Hills 90210" all the time... and if you think that they "just chose a song that was appropriate to cover a multitude of events", you're kidding yourself. Of course it was done to promote the artist in question.

    /Mike
     
  8. Scott Littlefield

    Scott Littlefield Stunt Coordinator

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    Well sure Mike, but it was still a perfect song for the events. I'd be all cynical, too, if it was "MMMMBop" or something totally inappropriate, but in this case Joss chose a song that fit exactly. And shows do it all the time, from the aforementioned 90210 to Alias to Friends.

    Dave's claim was that the song didn't fit the episode and was completely out of place. He was wrong.
     
  9. Dave F

    Dave F Cinematographer

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    Michelle Branch's "This Spirit Room" was one of, if not my favorite album last year. The song from Tabula Rasa, "Goodbye To You", was the song that I enjoyed the least. Until I saw Tabula Rasa. The song fit so well - I feel that it enhanced the show, and the show enhanced the song. Now it is probably my favorite song on the album.
    So I loved it. But that's why Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors. [​IMG]
    -Dave
     
  10. Steve Felix

    Steve Felix Supporting Actor

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    I must agree with Mr. Mack. Buffy has pulled this sort of thing off before, but not this time. It went on too long, and sending Giles off to a pop song, as part of a montage, was not good enough. The other fatal flaw was intercutting Branch into these important character moments, as though the singer at the Bronze mattered.

    I was actually thinking the other day that if the show doesn't improve, that this very montage was the shark-jumping point. If "Wrecked" was the end, this was the beginning of the end.

    A music montage is a storytelling crutch, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out, given the strange focus on Branch, that there was a degree of marketing going on.
     
  11. Danny R

    Danny R Supporting Actor

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    I'd have to disagree. The song was very appropriate... much like the Sarah McLachlin's "Full of Grace" played at the end of "Becoming". The only difference was that since Buffy was at the Bronze, they were able to actually show the artist rather than just play the music.

    Since they didn't make a big deal of announcing who Michelle Branch was, I wouldn't exactly say they were going overtime in promoting her, ala a music video. Here it was the lyrics which was the star, not the performer.
     
  12. Scott Littlefield

    Scott Littlefield Stunt Coordinator

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    Danny's right. If you really want marketing how about when Cibo Matto appeared in "When She Was Bad". They got to perform two songs, had their band name mentioned and shown repeatedly, and even had one of the band members vamped.

    Like the song playing when Willow and Tara dance, hovering above the floor, it's the lyrics that mattered here.
     
  13. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    It's not the SONG that was the problem, Y'all, it was the continual focus on the singer!!!!!!!!!
    Once again, what the HELL does SHE have to do with the plot?!?!? You missed my point!
    I have NO problem with music, per se... There is an AMAZING Kate Bush song, "This Woman's work" at the end of "She's Having a baby" that fit PERFECTLY... but how silly would it have been if they had suddenly cut back and forth between Kate Bush and the couple?!?!? I would go, WOAH, who is this singer all of a sudden and WHY is she getting SO much screentime? I mean, I know it's in a club (Buffy) but really, 1 or 2 shots at the absolute MOST would have sufficed!!!!
    Otherwise, it's just BAD film language or smells like a cheap Tie-in. Somewhere, somehow that song/artist is gonna show up on a product, that in some way, is financially tied in.
    If it truly was just "soundtrack" music, why were there more shots of here than any other single character in the "montage"?
    Funny, I didn't see John Williams during A.I.
    Peace!
     
  14. Brad Grenz

    Brad Grenz Second Unit

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    Maybe you just need to relax. The show has always incorperated music, frequently little known artists, in a prominant fashion. Joss talked about it on the Bronze when the episode aired that he had actually seen Michelle Branch playing in a club somewhere and decided to use her on the show. It was before she hit it big and stuff. When he signed her up and shot the episode she was a nobody who he thought deserved some attention, that MTV picked up on her before the show was broadcast wasn't his fault. And the scene and use of the music wasn't as gratuitous as it has been before, the Chibo Matto ep, or still is on lots of other shows which never miss a chance to tell you whose music was featured in that nights episode. And it certainly wasn't as nauseating as some of the crap they pull on Boston Public...
     
  15. Scott Littlefield

    Scott Littlefield Stunt Coordinator

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    Dave,

    Since season one of Buffy the Bronze has been a showcase for younger singers, just like Brad said. There have been countless examples of songs being performed at the Bronze with the camera lingering on the band on stage, just like in Tabula Rasa.

    Have you actually watched the show since the beginning, or was last season your first exposure? I'm finding it hard to believe you're a long time fan that thinks this "moment" was out of place for the series.
     
  16. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Yep, Joss is a huge fan of live music. Heck, he turns up at James Marsters' concerts [​IMG] Andy Hallet (Lorne/The Host on Angel) was discovered at a karaoke club [​IMG]
     
  17. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Hey, Y'all!
    Actually, I have seen Buffy since the beginning, do own the 1st set on DVD, but I actually think the show really hit it's stride in the last couple of seasons with Last season being phenomenal, edge of my seat stuff.
    I know they have done it before and I always thought it out of place, albeit NEVER on this scale. The singer is NOT a character in the plot. If you wanna make her a character, fine, but to just cut back and forth, I GET it... Singer singing sad song that reflects action onscreen. Can we be MORE obvious? Just because they featured musicians prominently in the previous episodes doesn't make THIS particular episode better because of that. I mean, really, if SW episode 2 blows, should we say, "Well, Phantom Menace sucked, so..."
    I mean, think of it this way, someone who has Never seen Buffy watches Tue. nite's show. All is going well, said person is even digging it. Then "montage" scene comes..
    By 3rd cut back to singer newbie turns and says...
    "Who's That?"
    " A singer in the club."
    "Oh, is she a regular on the show?"
    " No."
    ( 3 more shots of singer go by...)
    "Ummm, why do they keep showing her? Are you SURE she's not a regular character or will become one?"
    "No. Buffy has always randomly cut to artists playing songs in the club who aren't characters in the show."
    "Why?"
    "I don't know."
    "Well, it's a bit odd..."
    "I know, but Buffy ALWAYS has done it."
    (Song continues...)
    or, how the song just PERFECTLY captures the mood...
    "Wow, this song matches the emotions of the characters PRECISELY!!! Gee, I'm glad they did this for 4 minutes straight as I am too dense to deduce what they might be thinking... Have they ever heard of irony? Like maybe CONTRASTING a song with the emotions onscreen, to maybe, I dunno, make it less obvious and potentially more intersting, layered and deeper?"
    "No, Buffy ALWAYS has quite obvious musical interludes."
    "Oh, wouldn't something potentially more original be more interesting?"
    "I don't know, Buffy has always done it like this."
    "Oh well, hey was that scene suppossed to maybe be about the singer? I mean, they kept showing HER..."
    etc... etc... etc...
    You know, I LOVED the cantina scene in the original Star Wars, but wouldn't it have been a bit DAFT if they kept cutting back and forth between Luke, Han, Ben, Chewy, Greedo etc... with the cantina band? They showed them a FEW times. Perfect. plenty... because they WEREN'T the sublects of the scene!!!
    Geez! Did anyone ever study Film properly? Or did everyone just learn about it after MTV??
    D
     
  18. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

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    Dave, don't you know that critcizing Buffy here is like swearing in church?

    /Mike
     
  19. Scott Littlefield

    Scott Littlefield Stunt Coordinator

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    Sigh.

    Sorry you feel that way, Dave. I can't tell if you're trying to be insightful or incite-ful. For whatever reason you've decided to pick on a single example of a technique that has been used on this show since the very beginning.

    I'm done going nowhere with this. It's a shame you didn't see the scene the way most of us did, but I'm sure that nothing I say is going to change your mind about it. I hope for your sake that all of your future video-oriented music is performer free.
     
  20. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Hey, I honestly don't wanna rattle sabers in here. I LOVE Buffy. MOST of the time. Not ALL of the time. Hey, I am a RABID Classic TREK and Twilight Zone fan but I wouldn't say that EVERY episoe of those 2 series are perfect either... (Spock's Brain, anyone???)
    I believe Buffy can be the BEST show on TV, maybe that's why this bit upset me....
    The last couple of seasons which IMHO didn't often rely on something like this,( the first couple of seasons notwithstanding)... were AMAZING!!!!
    So far, except for the premiere and the musical, I haven't felt the vibe from before much...
    I hope it will improve... I just thought that the juxtaposition smelt like bad marketing... Like, ok.. we have 5 minutes to fill after pretty decent episode... "I got it! Music Video!!! Cool! We don't actually have to write Dialogue or anything... Let's just coast on a few static shots and have the music do the work."
    That's pretty 80's. MAybe I want more from Buffy.
    KILL me for wanting the show to be the best it can be..!
    I HONESTLY love the show! I am NOT attacking BUFFY! Just that 1 "montage"....
    Especially th over emphasis on the singer! That's All! Honestly! It just looks like a cheap corporate tie-in!
    Please give me a slight break fellow Buffyheads!!!
    Hey, if I didn't actually like the show, would I bother to post something this random???
    Peace, Y'all! PLEASE!!!
    [​IMG] Dave, your friend, actually!
     

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