Alien: Covenant (2017) (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Exactly...should have posted the clip from Cool Hand Luke.

 

[dpippel]

Ah, the great Strother Martin!

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

That would be the one.

Look, Tino, you have asked me over and over basically to add "in my opinion" to things I say and though I don't see any real need to do this because I expect people know things I say are my opinion I have done this here many times now mostly just for you.

I am asking you to think about something and it is something people do in conversation all the time and it turns things into arguments much of the time and it is also just really bad form to do it...that is when you listen to or read something someone has said and then you take that and say "You are saying..." and state something that person did not say at all but rather something you infer that they mean.

You took a statement I made where I wondered if people could see the comedy in these films and turned it into me saying there was something wrong with people who did not see the comedy in these films. That's not only not fair but it appears to be an attempt to turn me into a bad guy because it suggests I am saying something about a bunch of people that I certainly NEVER said.

Please think about this not only with me but any time you do it. If you question something someone is saying the best thing to do, and most polite and thoughtful thing to do, is to ask "Do you mean..." or pose it as some sort of question asking "...is this your take?"

This allows a person to respond to you, it does not appear to be an attack, and it makes it less likely you will start an argument. Can you consider this?

 

[Tino]

If I am saying that you are perhaps missing the comedy...and I missed it too the first time through Prometheus...that is not saying anything is wrong with you. You are not wrong and there is nothing wrong with you if you do not see a film the same way as someone else. You are still perfectly fine and so is everybody else. I would not criticize someone for this nor do I think it means they have an issue. I am asking you please to not attempt to take something I said and make it mean something I did not say...that's it. This is a really bad way to conduct a discussion.

If you are wondering what I am saying then ask "Are you saying you think..." and I will tell you if that is what I am saying.

Saying I missed something that I don't see and you apparently do is inferring there is something wrong with us for not seeing what you do.

Perhaps you need to be clearer in what you say and how you say it. Many of us have said this to you to no avail. And you're correct. It's a bad way to conduct a discussion.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Can you guys take this offline without subjecting the rest of us with this continuation of a conflict that you two apparently have when having a discussion.

 

[Tino]

And for the record I don't think you have to add "in my opinion" at all. I think you just need to word your opinions differently so that that is what they come off as. Opinions.

Feel free to disagree and ignore my advice Reggie.

No worries.

 

[Tino]

Can you guys take this offline without subjecting the rest of us with this continuation of a conflict that you two apparently have when having a discussion.

Sorry. I'm done.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Can you guys take this offline without subjecting the rest of us with this continuation of a conflict that you two apparently have when having a discussion.

I think maybe the discussion Tino and I are having could benefit all who read it if it creates better discussion on these message boards. I don't think there is any animosity at play here just an attempt to create better ways to communicate with each other.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Can I say something?

I'm someone who wants to participate in these discussions often, but feel forced out because of this loop we end on.

Reggie, with all of the respect and love in the world, Prometheus and Alien Covenant were not conceived as broad comedies by their filmmakers. If you found them to be comedic, and you enjoyed it on that level, that's fantastic, and it's not for me to tell you what to enjoy in a movie or how to enjoy it. But, on an objective level, Ridley Scott did not set out to make a full-on comedy with either of these films.

What gets frustrating for myself to keep reading, is when you repeatedly insist that the films are, in fact, comedies. There is no evidence - zero - that these films were objectively intended to be solely humorous. When this has been pointed out in previous threads, some of your responses were rather frustrating. For instance, when I pointed this out before, your response was that Ridley didn't understand the films he was making.

All I'm saying is, these films were not created to be comedies. If they work for you on that level and you enjoy them through that lens, that's great - but that's also not was intended. So when there are repeated posts where you insist that the films are comedies and that they were made to be funny, well, that sounds like an objective rather than subjective statement ("These films were made to be funny" vs "I find them funny"). Subjectively, its true that they're funny to you. Objectively, it's not true that they're comedies. But when any attempt to discuss the film is being forced through your subjective lens of "it's comedy", rather than the objective lens of "this is Ridley Scott's attempt to make a horror/sci-fi/suspense film", it shuts down discussion rather than enhancing it.

I think all I'm saying, and what I feel is somehow getting lost in translation, is that someone finding something funny does not automatically equal that it is a comedy. You find Alien Covenant funny; that doesn't mean Blockbuster should file it in the Comedy section. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think maybe the discussion Tino and I are having could benefit all who read it if it creates better discussion on these message boards. I don't think there is any animosity at play here just an attempt to create better ways to communicate with each other.

I disagree, you two have been having this same discussion for several months in different threads. Frankly, I've grown tired of it. I imagine, I'm not the only one. Furthermore, I do see some animosity as I think some people kind of resent or are annoy about how you express yourself.

 

[TravisR]

I don't want to stifle the discussion but I have to say that it's amazing that a decent enough movie like Alien: Covenant has generated this much talk (40 pages!) when MUCH better movies don't make it to two pages.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Sure, sure, but is it as funny as 'The Martian?'

 

[Carlo_M]

Josh, what's a Blockbuster?

 

[Tommy R]

Reading through all these comments has been fascinating, since I certainly didn't see either Prometheus or Covenant as comedies, and I don't think that was an overall intention by Ridley and co. But if I can say anything, I think I do see more than a little intentional comedy on Ridley's part, but in a dark-humor sort of way. Definitely in the relation with the two robots, which my wife and I laughed out loud at in the theater. What I find dark-humor about it is the way David has particularly evil intentions from the beginning, at least in regards to humanity, and there's a lot of parallel with Ash's comments from Alien. The "perfect organism" line came to my head before David said it himself. I may not be agreed with, and it may sound pessimistic as hell, but it's a little funny that David, who was created by humans, who were in turn created by the engineers, creates his own organism from the science of both, so that he can destroy both.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Josh, what's a Blockbuster?

A former place of employment for a Josh?

But if I can say anything, I think I do see more than a little intentional comedy on Ridley's part, but in a dark-humor sort of way

I think the movies have some humor in them for sure - but I think there's a difference between a dramatic film with humorous moments, and a comedy. I think it's pretty clear which type these films are.

 

[Bryan^H]

I found the "fingering" line to be a completely straight line of dialogue. I didn't chuckle, or even think along the line of it as sexual innuendo. I didn't think it was designed as such. David wanted the correct notes played on the flute so that is what he did.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

 

[Citizen87645]

I don't think it was designed as such either. It actually is more enjoyable (for those of us with minds in gutters) for that line to be unintentionally humorous.

 

[Tommy R]

Oh, I think the innuendo was 100% intentional. I feel David was trying to seduce Walter, or at least David thought he was. As he's not human he probably didn't quite know how to go about it and came off hilariously clumsy. Plus the fact that Walter was just not that into David. And David was doing this all in the name of destroying humanity. It's quite hilarious.

 

[Johnny Angell]

So, I do wonder here if people understand that the tone of Prometheus and Covenant is meant to be campy and comic. This is even more developed in Covenant. This was probably the most jarring shift away from the original Alien which was shot more in the vein of the era it was made. You had working class stiffs being used and abused by "the company" and a bit of a conspiracy vibe with that...it was the decade of Nixon and not far removed from all the assassinations of the 1960s.

The danger, the horror, the suspense were all played straight forward in Alien 1979.

These new "prequels" are the comedy SNL version for the present times. Yes, they are silly and stupid but they are meant to be. They are jokey and self reverential and full of camp. Also I just don't think Ridley takes these films seriously at all anymore and basically said so prior to the release of Prometheus.

So, while the Cinema Sins video is pointing out how silly and funny Covenant is...well...it was meant to be silly and funny. Fassbender gives one of the comic performances of the year. That's not an accident.

I think if people viewed the films as what they are, science fiction comedies, then they may not be as hard on them. I don't know if everybody gets that they are comedies and I don't know if understanding that they are will improve the films for anybody...but at least for me, the comedy in Covenant was better achieved than in the sloppy Prometheus.

Your perception of these movies is so far away from mine, that I ask once again, are you yanking our chain? Alien Resurrection, yeah that's got some of that and it IMHO it didn't work. work.

 

[Johnny Angell]

I don't agree with Reggie's POV on these films, but I think your comments are crossing the line in being too insulting.

Original post edited.