Adire Rava disappointment (1 Viewer)

[steve nn]

I set my mains to large when I bought towers and it killed my sub. I reset my mains to small and my sub came back to life. Zbigniew states it well on previous reply.

 

[AntonS]

I can calibrate the sub, but I don't think it wil help much. I can calibrate it by ear when it blends into the setup pretty well. Actually, with music it's pretty good, it extends the Studios just a bit into the lower domain. But for HT I expected more. I don't get this earth (or couch) shattering bass as I expected. I guess at 28Hz I was not supposed to get it. It's also a little strange that it craps out on bass limiter test earlier than the Studios, but those are extreme conditions which will never be reached in normal listening anyway.

I just did another experiment. Set the sub next to the left speaker. Took the bass wire from the Paradigm (it's bi-wired), and hooked it to high level input on the Rava (so it's playing of 200 watts Sherbourn amp). Disabled the LFE. Played test tone and some music. When closely listening to left and right channels, found that the left channel (with the sub) is making deeper bass than the Paradigm on the right alone, and is playing smoother than when the sub was connected to LFE input. So it's not that bad... but just does not do justice to Paradigms.

Steve, I tried setting the Studios to small and crossing at 80, 60, and 40. In either case it's not that bad. I think I just expected too much. Btw, what is the difference (in terms of processing) when the speakers are set to SMALL and crossover is set to 40Hz, from when they are set to LARGE but the crossover is set to the same 40Hz? Is there any difference?

Ned, actually my room has quite irreqular shape, with catherdral ceilings, and big opening to the dining room on one side. I tried moving the sub around and played with the phase (it does make quite a diffeence where it's set), and found what I think is a good spot.

Dustin, the Studios do have 4 8" drivers (although I think they are crossed differently, but I'not sure), plus they are ported.

Steve nn, what's the reason of having full towers and not using them? By setting them to small you are basically throwing away their bass drivers, or even two pairs of them.

 

[Michael R Price]

By setting them to small you reduce the bass load on the speakers, significantly reducing distortion at high volumes (though the 100s are 3-way so this improvement isn't as much as with other speakers). You also allow the bass to be reproduced by the subwoofer, which is better quality than your mains especially if you position it correctly. As Dustin and I have said, the 1 12" driver in the Rava is significantly better than the 4 8" drivers in your towers combined. BTW, I think you should use the highest crossover possible as long as you can't localize the sub. The more load you take off your mains, the better. And your amplifier will have a reduced load too, improving its performance.

In a large room like that, you may want a more powerful sub though. Like the Dharman, or one of the new SVS PC+. But the Rava should be good for now.

 

[Arron H]

I can calibrate the sub, but I don't think it wil help much. I can calibrate it by ear when it blends into the setup pretty well.

Actually, calibrating with an SPL meter makes a huge difference. I hooked up the Rava and tried setting it by ear for the heck of it. I then used the SPL meter and it turned out that by ear, it was set 17Db too high. Uncalibrated, it did seem a little boomy and overwhelming. I ended up calibrating it about 4Db hot with the SPL meter and it sounds great. You really should calibrate with an SPL meter as many others have suggested.

 

[steve nn]

AntonS--Michael answered my part of your questions better than I could except I only have two way towers. Two 6 1/2 woofs and 1 inch tweeter each. My towers will go down to 35 but not with the authority as my Vel can. In-fact they can not even come remotely close. I have the Kenwood VR-507 receiver which crosses at 120. If I could set it to 80-100 I would give it a try but it does not give me this option. With speakers set to small I am very happy with how much more dynamic this sounds than my previous configuration. Your receiver cross-over is not a brick wall and if you should set it to low you will rob effectiveness from your sub. With music I set my sub to calibration and with HT I run it a little hot. When I use my seconed sub I cut my SW setting back. GOOD LUCK!

 

[AntonS]

I have H/K AVR8000, it has 40, 60, 80, and 100Hz crossover points. I've played with them all. The Paradigms are runnings from external amp, which does not mind at all to be "robbed" for some bass power. In fact it seems to be quite happy providing this power.

I guess I know what my problem was - I was expecting too much. I was trying to crank the sub volume up too high to get this gut-shaking feeling, but the Rava just cannot handle it. When the volume is tamed and the sub is blended well with the speakers, it does provide some nice bass, especially for music. But this extra bass, comparing to what the Paradigms are alreasdy delivering, does not seem to justify this sub being in the system. I guess I need something more than the Rava, something that can do significantly better than the Paradigms.

Maybe I'll try SVS 20-39 PCi next as it's on sale now. Or will ACI Titan II do better for HT (doubt it, but I just like how it looks)? Or how about Vandersteen V2W?

 

[Michael R Price]

If the Rava didn't do well, neither will the PCi or ACI or Vandy.

Since you have such a big room and want the gut shaking feeling, you may want to get twin SVS Ultras or build a monster DIY sub. It'll take serious power to get what you want, if I'm understanding you correctly.

 

[Kyle Richardson]

The Rava isnt designed to be a gut wrenching HT subwoofer, it is designed to be a very good musical sub that can do very well in home theater in many small to medium sized rooms. If you are after a great home theater subwoofer try the Adire Dharman. This is designed with home theater in mind and will give you the performance of a Velo HGS15 (as tested by TN).

 

[Steve Zimmerman]

When the volume is tamed and the sub is blended well with the speakers, it does provide some nice bass, especially for music. But this extra bass, comparing to what the Paradigms are alreasdy delivering, does not seem to justify this sub being in the system. I guess I need something more than the Rava, something that can do significantly better than the Paradigms.

Pardon me, but it sounds as though you are wanting a subwoofer to do something that it is not designed to do. A subwoofer is not meant to over-emphasize bass. It is meant to accurately reproduce low bass at the correct level. For music listening, it arguably shouldn't even be obvious that the subwoofer is on.

If you want to approach reference level output for HT and want to go down really low (under 20Hz) then you should investigate a dual SVS CS+ combo or a pair of Adire Dharmans.

--Steve

 

[Brian Bunge]

Anton,

Something else I just thought of. I notice you are in FL. By any chance is your house built on a concrete slab? If so, that's one reason why you are not getting the type of impact that you expect. I have an open floor plan house on a concrete slab and a cathedral ceiling in my living room. I have dual 12" DIY subs that have plenty of output, but very little tactile information through the floor. My dad's house is built on a crawl space and his single 12" sub shakes the hell out of his house.

Brian

 

[Patrick Sun]

For the love of Pete, if you can afford the Paradigms, you can afford to buy a SPL meter and calibrate and relieve everyone of the uncertainty between calibrating by "feel" vs. calibrating by a SPL meter.

Also, feel from to email Dan Wiggins of Adire of your concerns. He'll be more than happy to run through some things that need to be set up for proper integration of the Rava into the rest of your system.

 

[Michael R Price]

Steve has a good point - what you were expecting might not be 'accurate' bass. But if you want the gut shaking feeling there's nothing wrong with going for a high output sub and cranking up the bass a little.

Oh wow, I didn't realize you don't have an SPL meter. Before you do anything, get one, calibrate your system and tell us what you think. Didn't someone else get an SPL meter and find out their subwoofer was about 14 dB hot? While you won't find problems that extreme, it will teach you a lot and improve your sound regardless of what you do with your sub.

If you do want *more* bass, you can contact Brian or Kyle and they'd be happy to build a Tempest for you. Or you can look at a dual SVS setup.

 

[Zbigniew]

And one more item - good sub is almost non-present. I have a Servo-15 mathced to 40, and you cannot differencuate between sub and speakers - transition is very smooth. Sometimes you notice - Wow, there is a lot of LFE in this part, but there is no slam, kisk, whoomp like in a cars built for show only.


_zjt

 

[Mike Strassburg]

Anton,

Seems like a case of the wrong sub for the application. I've never heard a Rava but going by the specs it's not really designed to "shake the house" as you desire. If that's truly what you want then consider dual SVS subs, a DIY dual Tempest, or something of that nature.

 

[DanWiggins]

Anton,

As many others in this thread have recommended, I'd start with a good calibration first. Gregg's piped in about the Rava and the 100s (since he owns both), and how there should be no contest between the two, in terms of output. That makes me suspect a calibration issue.

Also, can you describe your room and placement of your speakers? It's possible you have the sub in a null location; different placement may considerably help.

Thanks,

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio

 

[AntonS]

I got myself an SPL meter yesterday and calibrated the sub. Actually I found that I calibrated it too low by ear, so accordingly to the SPL meter I had to bring it up about 4dB. I did that, but then I somewhat lost the smooth integration with the mains, so I returned it back to -4dB. I left the main speakers to large (they just sound better like that), and set the crossover to 40dB. Now there is a nice bass extension to Paradigms, and yes, the Rava does go deeper than Studio 100s. It is stil a little strange why the Studios can make my windows rattle and the Rava cannot, but the explanation maybe quite siple - the resonance frequency of the winodws is higher so they just don't resonate to lower frequency.

So the Rava is exactly what everybody says it is - a good sub for music. For HT it's okey if you don't expect your couch jump. If you want it to jump, looks someplace else.

Dan, I'll live with the Rava for a week, but I still may return it. I'll try to move it around again, but I think I have found a good spot for it already. I'll also have a chance to have ACI Titan in my house in few days, so I'll compare the two subs side by side (I expect them to be quite similar, but who knows.) I'm not sure what I'm going to do in the end yet.

Btw, there are some minor scrathces on the finish. I DID NOT DO THEM! In fact they look as if they are under the varnish. It's like somebody put something heavy on top of the sub and wiggled it around so it left marks.

 

[Cindy B]

You must have one huge room. I know the Rava is considered a somewhat musical sub, but I watched Harry Potter tonight with my son and his friend, and they were looking concerned when the windows rattled. Personally I would not care for any more bass than it provides, but that is just my preference. My room is 18 x 19, with a high - but not cathedral, ceiling. And I do have my mains set to small.
Good luck.

 

[Arron H]

Cindy B,

My wife and I watched Harry Potter the other night and had a similar experience. I have not been at all disappointed by the Rava's performance on HT in our 16x14 living room. A very solid overall performer IMHO. The other day, I was listening to Tom Waits' Nighthawks at the Diner and could not tell the sub was on until I walked over and turned it off. It integrates so well with my mains - I also set my mains to small.

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

I recently completed a sealed Dayton 12" DVC subwoofer with 250 watt amplifier. This should be VERY similar in performance to the Rava. And this thing rocks!. Absolutely fantastic for music. With deep bass movies like Titan AE and Toy Story 2 it can't quite keep up with my SVS 25-31PC (maxes out about 5-6dB sooner) but it certainly shakes the walls of my very large living room/kitchen area.
Honestly I think something must be wrong with either your setup or your particular sub. Those "tiny explosions" inside the sub shouldn't be happening. Its possible that you have a damaged driver or an air leak.
But first I would try playing with the calibration a bit. When I first tried to run my SVS and my DIY sealed sub at the same time I found that my bass was flat and had no authority. Turned out the phase control on the DIY sub was 180 degrees off from the SVS. Problem solved. Since you've got multiple bass sources (running mains large) you might try adjusting the phase too. Could be you are just getting cancellations. Even better - try running small! If nothing else just to be sure. All those preconceived notions about "wasting your mains" could actually be holding you back from a substantial sound improvement. Its soooo easy to change this mode. And we won't stop bugging you about it until try it

 

[Craig Woodhall]

I know you don't want to set your 100's to small but it will ease the load on your mains and it will let your sub shine.. I have dual tempests powered by 1000w and it shakes my whole house.. When I set my mains to large though, the bass is about 1/2 of when the mains are set to small.. I prefer the small settings all around..