A problem connecting my turntable (1 Viewer)

[Otto Fruytier]

Hi there
I've bought a pioneer D710S a/v receiver, which unfortunately doesn't have a phono input. When I connect my turntable to aux or tape I hardly hear anything at all. Is there a way to connect it?
Thanks, Otto

 

[Joe Casey]

Unfortunately, no. Without a phono input, you won't hear anything like you said. The output of a phono cartridge usually maxes out at 6mV, whereas a standard line-level input (for CD etc) is usually looking for upto 2.5V. As you can see, a big difference. You need an external phono preamp, which starts at around $80 US. This phono preamp 'up's' the voltage (in addition to performing RIAA equalization) to an acceptable lin-level voltage. Make sure you find out what your cartridge outputs before buying any old phono preamp. Usually, moving-coil (MC) cartridges output upto 1.5mV, whereas moving-magnet (MM) cartridges output upto 6mV. You need to get a phono stage that matches your phono catridge output.
Hope this helps.
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Q
[Edited last by Joe Casey on August 03, 2001 at 09:48 AM]

 

[Randy Tennison]

Otto,
I don't know if they have Radio Shack in the Netherlands, but you can purchase a pre-amp at the Shack pretty inexpensivley. If you can't find that, you can buy an inexpensive dj mixer (two channels with fader between), which should have a pre-amp built in. Just look for the grounding terminal, and it should handle a phono cartridge.
Good Luck!
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Randy Tennison
Kansas City, MO
Outdated home theater photos (disregard the Bose and Toshiba 3006, they are gone) at
www.hometheaterforum.com/bbs/equipment/28554.html

 

[Burke Strickland]

You do need a phono stage to boost the signal from the cartridge to the level the line inputs on your receiver can handle. The Radio Shack phono stage would get you hooked up very economically, but is notorious for "noise". (The DJ mixer is a gamble -- be sure you have return privileges in case it doesn't include a true phono stage and gives you the same result you are getting now -- or sounds bad.)
If you want a really musical experience (i,e,. not buried in noise) with your LPs there are a lot of options out there, ranging in price from about $50 to over $1,000. Check out the information and discussion in yesterday's thread about the same subject: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/041684.html
Burke

 

[John Kotches]

I'm sure it was just an oversight, a Phono stage does more than just signal amplification.
LPs are recorded with equalization curves that roll off the bass response (and maybe the extreme HF response as well I don't recall) -- this is the RIAA curve, but prior to adoption of the RIAA curve some others were in use that were similar but not identical.
Regards,
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John Kotches
Contributing Writer
Link Removed

 

[Marvin]

If you want a really musical experience (i,e,. not buried in noise) with your LPs there are a lot of options out there, ranging in price from about $50 to over $1,000.

Suppose your receiver has a phono input. Would you expect the phono preamp built into, say, a Denon AVR2700 to be closer in quality to a separately purchased $50 pre-amp or a >$1000 one? Will this likely vary by receiver brand?

 

[Saurav]

$1000 one?

That's a very interesting question. In my opinion (which isn't an expert opinion by any chance) and based on what I've read on online forums, the answer is... "it depends".
Some receivers and integrated amps from the 70s have excellent built-in phono stages. For instance, the NAD 1020 preamp (and correspondingly, 3020 integrated and 7020 receiver) have a phono stage that is supposedly unequalled in any subsequent NAD gear. The phono stage in the 1020 was designed by the legendary Tom Holman (better known in the HT world as the man behind THX). I'm currently using a 70s Pioneer receiver as my phono stage, and it sounds much better than my previous unit, which I've seen selling on eBay for up to $40.
On a modern mid-fi/mass market receiver, I'm not so sure the phono stage would be high quality. The reason is, I don't think the manufacturers of these receivers see much interest in vinyl among their target customers. Once you start going into slightly higher end gear, then the target market changes, and now you're selling to people who actually do still listen to vinyl, so it makes more financial sense to put a good phono stage into an integrated amp (I doubt there are too many high-end stereo receivers). The Denon you mentioned is an A/V receiver, and IMO, the typical target audience for such a product is even further away from vinyl.
I think a $50 70's Japanese receiver, or a $100-$150 modern stand-alone phono stage would probably be better than anything in the Denon. Note, that's pure speculation, as I haven't heard the phono stage in any modern A/V receiver.

 

[Joe Casey]

John,
Oversight? See my post above .
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Q

 

[John Kotches]

Joe,
There was certainly some oversight, but by me!
Sorry for the boo-boo!
Regards,
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John Kotches
Contributing Writer
Link Removed

 

[Burke Strickland]

quote: a Phono stage does more than just signal amplification...equalization... RIAA curve...[/quote]John is correct in stating that the phono stage does more than just amplify the signal... equalization according to the RIAA curve is another important reason you need to be sure you are using a device with a true phono stage, and not just a signal gain booster.
Without the equalization, the sound from phono albums would not be pleasing at all. On the record itself, the sound recorded according to the RIAA curve has reduced bass to reduce the size of the grooves in the vinyl ("large" grooves are hard for the stylus to track, and thus contribute to trackiing errors and distortion) and it has increased treble to help mask hiss and other objectionable noises. Then in playback, the equalization boosts the bass and reduces the treble. In doing so, the bass is back in balance with the rest of the music and the hiss/noise gets reduced to a (hopefully) inaudible level as the exaggerated high frequencies are reduced to also be in balance.
Presumably, if well done, the music as originally recorded is restored for your listening pleasure with this encoding and decoding. One might assume that the quality of implementation of this analog process can vary and may be somewhat related to price of the phono stage as well, so that investment in a "better-than-bottom-feeder" phono stage is justified if high quality reproduction of sound on vinyl is a priority.
For a more technical look at the RIAA curve, read this: http://www.infomaniak.ch/~bonavolt/riaa.htm
For the "official history" check this out: http://www.riaa.com/Audio-History-2.cfm
Enjoy!
Burke
[Edited last by Burke Strickland on August 03, 2001 at 01:41 PM]

 

[Philip Hamm]

Note, that's pure speculation, as I haven't heard the phono stage in any modern A/V receiver.

On my (recent vintage) HK3270 stereo receiver and Onkyo TX-SV919THS the phono stages are nice. The H/K actually touts a high quality phono stage as one of it's benefits in marketing materials.
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Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker