A Few Words About A few words about...™ Tora Tora Tora -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Alan Tully]

That's funny, I saw this tonight. I don't have the Blu-ray yet, I Sky +ed a week ago. I always found it too slow before, but I really enjoyed it, it's a bit of a comedy of errors. I suppose America was really guilty of complacency, but that's understandable, who in their right mind would attack them? And it didn't end well for Japan, did it. The attack when it comes is just amazing, all those explosions & crashes, all real.

 

[FrancisP]

I've always found the Japanese side of the film more interesting. The film does a good job in potraying the clear divisions in policy between the Japanese Army and Navy. Also the fact that Yamamoto had been in the US and knew that a war with the US would be disasterous for Japan and he was right.

 

[JNagarya]

Something has always bothered me about Tora Tora Tora, an otherwise decent account of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
What troubles me is the stupid Americans.
Really, idiotically portrayed, stupid Americans.
_____
Same was true of the Germans, as depicted in "The Longest Day".
Difference is that I don't doubt those as being true to the reality. In the US's case, a passive arrogance: "It can't happen here." In Germany's case: an active arrogance: "We're too tough to beat."

 

[RickER]

Something has always bothered me about Tora Tora Tora, an otherwise decent account of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
What troubles me is the stupid Americans.
Really, idiotically portrayed, stupid Americans.
_____
Same was true of the Germans, as depicted in "The Longest Day".
Difference is that I don't doubt those as being true to the reality. In the US's case, a passive arrogance: "It can't happen here." In Germany's case: an active arrogance: "We're too tough to beat."

You have made 2 posts on this forum, both in this thread.
Both times you felt the need to call Americans stupid!
You do realize that each side during WWII, made mistakes that had a cost.
I sure would thank you not to generalize.
And welcome to the forum.

 

[John Hermes]

Something has always bothered me about Tora Tora Tora, an otherwise decent account of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
What troubles me is the stupid Americans.
Really, idiotically portrayed, stupid Americans.
_____
Same was true of the Germans, as depicted in "The Longest Day".
Difference is that I don't doubt those as being true to the reality. In the US's case, a passive arrogance: "It can't happen here." In Germany's case: an active arrogance: "We're too tough to beat."

Seems like the Japanese were the stupid ones. Who ended up with their country destroyed?
In any event, this Blu-ray is very nice.

 

[Robert Crawford]

We don't need this type of discussion here so let's stop with the nationalistic comments.





Crawdaddy

 

[Lord Dalek]

Didn't Kurosawa walk out over the lousy quality of the script?

 

[JoHud]

He was fired three weeks into the shoot, though the US press published that he left due to "fatigue."

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Lord Dalek /t/316847/a-few-words-about-tora-tora-tora-in-blu-ray/30#post_3942021
Didn't Kurosawa walk out over the lousy quality of the script?

The story I heard was that he was fired due to his directing techniques. He was taking to long to shot a scene and was kind of rewriting the script as he shot. TORA, TORA, TORA was being filmed at the time when Fox was deep in debt and Richard Zanuck was trying to hold down expenses the best he could. The film did end up costing much more than budgeted and helped to bring down the House of Zanuck.

Richard Fleischer's book "Just Tell Me When To Cry: A Memoir" has a really good chapter about the making of TORA TORA TORA. He was very disturbed when Kurosawa was let go.

 

[JNagarya]

My comment responded directly to criticism of the movie "Tora! Tora! Tora!" for depicting the US military as being "stupid" in its lackadaisical response to the attack on Pearl Harbor by pointing to the fact that there are not only actual instances of the US military being "stupid" -- as happened at Pearl Harbor -- but even worse than that.
Nor did I bias it, as I noted (elsewhere?) that the German military is depicted as being "stupid" in "The Longest Day".
Perhaps someday we'll get a major Hollywood film on the Iraq war which is accurate to that history, as "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is to Pearl Harbor, and "The Longest Day" to the Normandy invasion.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by JNagarya /t/316847/a-few-words-about-tora-tora-tora-in-blu-ray/30#post_3942060
Perhaps someday we'll get a major Hollywood film on the Iraq war which is accurate to that history, as "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is to Pearl Harbor, and "The Longest Day" to the Normandy invasion.

History is a muddled thing, so many different version's depending on what source you read or indeed who wrote the history in the first place, best to just view the film as a movie which is based on an historical event and relax and chill, put too much thinking into it and you will see flaws in any so called " Hollywood true story" or for that matter any film made anywhere in the world which says it is based on a true story, liberties are always taken in order to make an entertaining film, for example i'm Scottish, a little film called Braveheart came out in 1995, it took many liberties with the historical records but it entertained and was well made, if you want 100% accuracy in a movie then you will be disappointed, i don't think any film has 100% accuracy.

I thought Tora Tora Tora was a plodding film, it bored me, as do many of the seventies so called "epic" productions, not into Earthquake, nor do i really like The Towering Inferno all that much, the seventies was not a good decade for epic filmmaking.

 

[Doctorossi]

I thought Tora Tora Tora was a plodding film, it bored me

I've seen you say this before and it still amazes me.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi /t/316847/a-few-words-about-tora-tora-tora-in-blu-ray/30#post_3942102
I've seen you say this before and it still amazes me.

Why does it amaze you. ?

 

[David_B_K]

History is a muddled thing, so many different version's depending on what source you read or indeed who wrote the history in the first place, best to just view the film as a movie which is based on an historical event and relax and chill, put too much thinking into it and you will see flaws in any so called " Hollywood true story" or for that matter any film made anywhere in the world which says it is based on a true story, liberties are always taken in order to make an entertaining film, for example i'm Scottish, a little film called Braveheart came out in 1995, it took many liberties with the historical records but it entertained and was well made, if you want 100% accuracy in a movie then you will be disappointed, i don't think any film has 100% accuracy.
I thought Tora Todry plodding non-fictionra Tora was a plodding film, it bored me, as do many of the seventies so called "epic" productions, not into Earthquake, nor do i really like The Towering Inferno all that much, the seventies was not a good decade for epic filmmaking.

A good post about history vs. entertainment. I enjoy fanciful historical epics like El Cid and Braveheart; but also the clinically accurate approach of Tora, Tora, Tora. But then again, most of what I read is plodding and dry non-fiction. I can easily see someone finding the build-up portion of TTT to be rather plodding. I saw it when it was released, and I recall most people saying that the movie did not pick up for them until the attack sequence. Again, I sort of thrive on historical minutia, so I enjoyed it. But I can see how some would not.
BTW, I would consider Tora, Tora, Tora to be a 60's epic rather than a 70s one. Released in 1970, it was probably conceived and shot in the late 60s.

 

[John Hermes]

A good post about history vs. entertainment. I enjoy fanciful historical epics like El Cid and Braveheart; but also the clinically accurate approach of Tora, Tora, Tora. But then again, most of what I read is plodding and dry non-fiction. I can easily see someone finding the build-up portion of TTT to be rather plodding. I saw it when it was released, and I recall most people saying that the movie did not pick up for them until the attack sequence. Again, I sort of thrive on historical minutia, so I enjoyed it. But I can see how some would not.
BTW, I would consider Tora, Tora, Tora to be a 60's epic rather than a 70s one. Released in 1970, it was probably conceived and shot in the late 60s.

I'm with you, David. I hardly find TTT boring. I mostly read non-fiction and biographies.

 

[Kosty]

Tora Tora Tora is hardly boring for me as well as I was well familiar with the historical story and background. But I can understand how some can certainly take it that way.
But to me a historical film is like a science fiction film in the way of being set in a different place and time. If the "world" being portrayed is consistent or in a sense realistic and accurate enough in itself, I'l enjoy the film just for seeing the sets and costumes and what nots for the cinema spectacle itself and the plot and acting by itself is almost secondary to my enjoyment of the flim.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by David_B_K /t/316847/a-few-words-about-tora-tora-tora-in-blu-ray/30#post_3942154
A good post about history vs. entertainment. I enjoy fanciful historical epics like El Cid and Braveheart; but also the clinically accurate approach of Tora, Tora, Tora. But then again, most of what I read is plodding and dry non-fiction. I can easily see someone finding the build-up portion of TTT to be rather plodding. I saw it when it was released, and I recall most people saying that the movie did not pick up for them until the attack sequence. Again, I sort of thrive on historical minutia, so I enjoyed it. But I can see how some would not.
BTW, I would consider Tora, Tora, Tora to be a 60's epic rather than a 70s one. Released in 1970, it was probably conceived and shot in the late 60s.

I did enjoy reading information about the film from IMDB.


Development of this production started in 1966.

Akira Kurosawa agreed to direct the Japanese part of the film only because he was told that David Lean was to direct the American part. Lean, in fact, was never part of the project. When Kurosawa found out about this, he tried to get himself fired from the production--and succeeded.

Akira Kurosawa attempted to cast friends and business associates, including some high-level industrialists, in key roles in the film's Japanese segments as a quid-pro-quo for later funding of future films. Twentieth Century Fox was not amused by this, and finally, the breach became the cause for Kurosawa's dismissal from the project.

When Akira Kurosawa was fired from the production, the Japanese sequences were at least three weeks behind schedule.

In my opinion Kurosawa is one of the finest directors to have ever lived, Lean wasn't too bad either, i can appreciate parts of Tora Tora Tora and the history behind that day is fascinating, it's hard to put into words why i don't really have love for the film but i feel the same way about some other films from the sixties and seventies such as Khartoum, El Cid or Earthquake ( sorry Chuck - you set the bar high with Ben Hur ) they don't grab me the way a film like Lawrence Of Arabia or Ben Hur does, i guess it's the script, i actually find the Japanese scenes in Tora Tora Tora to be better written than the rest of the film, at least that's how i feel about it, been a few years since i saw it though, perhap's if i was to re-watch it with an open mind i might enjoy all of it.

 

[JoHud]

When Kurosawa found out about this, he tried to get himself fired from the production 

I'm a bit skeptical on this bit, particularly since IMDB is about as reputable as Wikipedia in those "Did You Know" subsections. Also, I doubt Kurosawa was that unprofessional.

 

[Alan Tully]

I'm sure we'll never know just what happend with Kurosawa, but the film didn't need him did it. The whole film is done in a very documentary style & any competent Japanese director would do. I'm sure hiring him was half publicity & half an easy way to get respectability, & for Kurosawa a bit of easy money for his next project. After the dire Pearl Harbour, maybe TV is the way to go with this subject, The Pacific is such a great mini-series, I'd love for Midway to get the same treatment.

 

[Yorkshire]

All this talk of accuracy reminds me of what Churchill said:
"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
There is no such thing as a film that's a true story, only a film that's based on a true story. Even documentaries are cut, edited, and may have other factors influencing how the events are viewed.
If you want to get to the truth, or as close as is possible, read all of the accounts and form a balanced view, don't watch a film.
Tora Tora Tora is neither a good or bad film because of its accuracy. I'm a massive Buddy Holly fan, and I can tell you that The Buddy Holly Story is hugely inaccurate. But it's still a pretty decent film.
Steve W