A Few Words About A few words about...™ Ben-Hur -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

Good, back to our regular program then

Reading about 2001 supposedly getting a UHD release this year I hope that Ben-Hur will follow soon, that would be a great candidate for a UHD release.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Do you know the cost for such an effort?

Not that much. Interpolation is a standard tool in the digital restoration tool suite. Some human retouching would be needed and probably "grain management" before and after the interpolation. Seamless results are possible in most cases..

 

[Michel_Hafner]

You’re referencing apples and oranges.
Multiple frames of Lawrence were missing because of post-release re-cuts, and the final work was approved by the filmmaker in that pre-digital state
Ben-Hur is a totally different situation, as the missing frames were (for whatever reason) a part of the original production.
When films are restored, the mindset is to match the original look and condition of the film, as projected. Before damage and wear occurred. Not to change it.

Exactly. Maybe I don't understand the LOA situation correctly but I was under the impression that Lean was quite happy with the premiere version and most if not all of the missing frames today are due to the technicalities of negative recutting when large parts of the film were removed due to economic pressure to make a more palatable product for the mass market at a reduced running time. And that would be the "damage" in this case. While approved by Lean as a necessary compromise this was not the originally intended final form of the film. That was achieved as well as possible when the film was restored and missing footage put back plus some trimmed for even better flow, but showing some jumps now due to the missing frames that were lost when footage was removed. If that is the situation I see no artistic/technical point in not fixing this when it can be done seamlessly, unless Lean wanted it unfixed. But I have a feeling here the subject was never discussed with Lean (probably because it was not technically feasible at the time to do it) so what was approved is what we have. And with no authorisation possible anymore restoration ethics demand to stick to it, warts and all, no matter how likely it is that Lean would authorise it now if he were still alive. Is that a fair assessment? For such cases estates or official people in charge legally/artistically representing deceased film makers can be a good idea, but not without risks of their own.

 

[Robert Harris]

Exactly. Maybe I don't understand the LOA situation correctly but I was under the impression that Lean was quite happy with the premiere version and most if not all of the missing frames today are due to the technicalities of negative recutting when large parts of the film were removed due to economic pressure to make a more palatable product for the mass market at a reduced running time. And that would be the "damage" in this case. While approved by Lean as a necessary compromise this was not the originally intended final form of the film. That was achieved as well as possible when the film was restored and missing footage put back plus some trimmed for even better flow, but showing some jumps now due to the missing frames that were lost when footage was removed. If that is the situation I see no artistic/technical point in not fixing this when it can be done seamlessly, unless Lean wanted it unfixed. But I have a feeling here the subject was never discussed with Lean (probably because it was not technically feasible at the time to do it) so what was approved is what we have. And with no authorisation possible anymore restoration ethics demand to stick to it, warts and all, no matter how likely it is that Lean would authorise it now if he were still alive. Is that a fair assessment? For such cases estates or official people in charge legally/artistically representing deceased film makers can be a good idea, but not without risks of their own.

Reasonable assessment, however the frame problem was discussed, and as such, there were no alternatives, to what is today, the almost approved version.

The only addition was to be revoicing of the Hawkins dialogue with a proper actor. This never occurred, as our cutting room was shut down upon DL’s departure

 

[Alan Tully]

Well I viewed this tonight, great old epic, I thoroughly enjoyed it, & Warner's restoration looks superb, quite faultless really. The chariot race is one of the all time great sequences

 

[DoctorMirabilis]

Ben-Hur is a true restoration.


To the specifics, the tracks sound more representative of the film than did those of the last DVD release, which seemed heavy on the effects, the color is back, and very representative of the look of the original.

The Glory Days of Ben-Hur have returned.


Everything looks to have been dutifully handled, and the recipient of all of this work is the home theater enthusiast.

Hi Mr. Harris,

I recently watched Ben-Hur in its entirety or this first time on Blu-ray. And while the image quality is very good, I think there are some problems regarding brightness, contrast and black levels. Every interior and night scenes in the Blu-ray version of Ben-Hur seem way too dark to my eyes, especially when compared to the previous DVD releases that I own. Moreover, I've also seen the film several times on TV throughout the years and I've never seen a presentation of Ben-Hur as dark as the Blu-ray.
Therefore, I would like to know your expert opinion regarding this issue. Was the film this dark when it originally ran in theaters, or was the film "darkened" during the 8K restoration made by Warner in 2011? Or were the DVDs "brightened"?

For comparison, here's two videos I found on YouTube of the Messala death scene, the first one sourced from the DVD and the second from the Blu-ray:





Best regards.

 

[Clayking38]

I'm not Mr. Harris, but I remember that the authoring of one of the DVD releases was terrible - all the scenes that were supposed to be in stygian blackness, with only faces illuminated, were artificially lightened to the point you could see halos surrounding the characters. I've seen the film a few times in 70mm and although that was years ago, the current blu-ray is the way I remember it.

 

[OliverK]

There definitely is more shadow detail in a faded 70mm premiere print in Germany, despite the fading.

To me some of the scenes in the latest version look uncomfortably dark, so dark that i would call it unusual for a big budget studio production at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain amount of detail is again lifted out of the shadows for the 4k UHD release as timing these movies is not an exact science with the aged and faded elements that one has to work with and the exact reconstruction of how a movie was supposed to look like is very difficult for a number of reasons.

 

[Keith Cobby]

Reviewing my blu ray collection and watching discs again that i hadn't seen since release. Sad to say i really struggled to get through it. Decided i wouldn't upgrade to 4k if released so giving it away.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Reviewing my blu ray collection and watching discs again that i hadn't seen since release. Sad to say i really struggled to get through it. Decided i wouldn't upgrade to 4k if released so giving it away.

Ben-Hur is worth it if even just for hearing the magnificent Rozsa score in context.

 

[Alan Tully]

Reviewing my blu ray collection and watching discs again that i hadn't seen since release. Sad to say i really struggled to get through it. Decided i wouldn't upgrade to 4k if released so giving it away.

Ben-Hur is clever in having that amazing chariot race in the second half, so many epics have a boring second half, most famously Cleopatra (1963), & the second half of The Robe could send anyone to sleep (& Gone With The Wind is let down by the boring second half). I've looked at my Ben-Hur Blu-ray about three time now & have always enjoyed it...once I got used to that narrow strip of picture (2:66).

 

[TJPC]

I enjoy it as a classic, but greatly prefer the silent version with its technicolor inserts, and real ships for the sea battles. It is far more moving than the Heston version as well.

 

[OliverK]

Reviewing my blu ray collection and watching discs again that i hadn't seen since release. Sad to say i really struggled to get through it. Decided i wouldn't upgrade to 4k if released so giving it away.

It is interesting you should say that as I had a bit of a struggle at my last screening as a 4k DCP. For me everything until the chariot race is smooth sailing but after the race it felt to me as if the movie should have been over earlier than it really was.

I still love Ben-Hur and I will also get the UHD disc but I'd probably prefer El Cid these days if I wanted to watch an epic with Charles Heston and a great Miklos Rozsa score. Not that this would matter much as I do not have ready access to a good print and the Blu-ray of El Cid looks very bad so there aren't that many opportunities to watch it in acceptable quality.

 

[Keith Cobby]

I have now put my hard hat on. I don't know whether it is because of getting older, but many films are simply too long, with too many sub-plots/themes or poorly edited. I watched La Belle Noiseuse fairly recently and, nearly 4 hours running time, seemed shorter than Ben Hur. It might just be that familiarity or waiting for favourite scenes slows viewing down.

 

[OliverK]

I have now put my hard hat on. I don't know whether it is because of getting older, but many films are simply too long, with too many sub-plots/themes or poorly edited. I watched La Belle Noiseuse fairly recently and, nearly 4 hours running time, seemed shorter than Ben Hur. It might just be that familiarity or waiting for favourite scenes slows viewing down.

Might be a case of watching a movie too often, even the best movies can overstay their welcome.

 

[PatrickDA]

I don't agree that the film suffers a lot post-Chariot race. The most important scene in the film happens after. "It's as if you've become Messala" confrontation between Judah and Esther gets to the whole crux of the story, in my opinion. That's the real climax. Ben-Hur turns away from seeking vengeance and accepts forgiveness afterwards.

 

[john a hunter]

I'm just about to have my yearly screening and like Patrick above, I think the ending is perfect.
It is clear that in the 1925 version they cobbled together a ludicrous one having no idea what they were doing.

One thing that keeps me coming back apart from nostalgia is thanks to Wyler I am always noticing something new that I was not previously aware of.
Last time in the opening Christmas card nativity scene( which I think should have been dropped),one of the shepards reaches out to touch one to the Wise men's silk robes and then has second thoughts.
A very human touch from Mr Wyler and marks him out in my book as a great director.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I don't agree that the film suffers a lot post-Chariot race. The most important scene in the film happens after. "It's as if you've become Messala" confrontation between Judah and Esther gets to the whole crux of the story, in my opinion. That's the real climax. Ben-Hur turns away from seeking vengeance and accepts forgiveness afterwards.

I love this movie and try to watch it every couple of years either at Christmas or Easter.

 

[Keith Cobby]

I generally don't care much for religious epics. Other films lined up for a rewatch are The Ten Commandments and King of Kings.

 

[dpippel]

I generally don't care much for religious epics. Other films lined up for a rewatch are The Ten Commandments and King of Kings.

But you're going to watch two more of them?