A Few Words About A few words about...™ Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[edo1080]

The Goddess of Spring looks upscaled, but the rest seem to be HD remasters.

Let's look at the following picture: http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8162/blurayt.jpg this screenshot has been taken from Snow White Blu-ray 2nd disc and it's from Music Land Short, this short is at 1920x1080 and to be in real HD (as Snow White is) it should be taken from original negatives. The short had been made in 3-strip technicolor, as well as Snow White movie, but the mis-alignment of colors is not present in Snow White Movie; how can this happen? The same happens for other color Shorts on the same disc and for Grasshopper and The Ant which is located on A Bug's Life Blu-ray; would this mean the source is not the orignal negative but it's an upscale from Standard Definition (maybe Digibeta or so) ? (it''s not HD but SD?) It clearly a wrong alignment of the 3 strips, but how can this happen ? And in which case? Positive print, digital combination of negative separate scans? Any information would really be much appreciated

 

[Ethan Riley]

To me, all the shorts they've been using on the blurays look like upscaled versions of the materials used for the Walt Disney Treasures tins. That said, I do know that Disney is slowly remastering all of its product, (in some fashion or other). Hopefully, we will see the results of those efforts soon, and that they'll be worthwhile.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by edo1080

The Goddess of Spring looks upscaled, but the rest seem to be HD remasters.

Let's look at the following picture:
[url=http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8162/blurayt.jpg]http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8162/blurayt.jpg
this screenshot has been taken from Snow White Blu-ray 2nd disc and it's from Music Land Short, this short is at 1920x1080 and to be in real HD (as Snow White is) it should be taken from original negatives.
The short had been made in 3-strip technicolor, as well as Snow White movie, but the mis-alignment of colors is not present in Snow White Movie; how can this happen? The same happens for other color Shorts on the same disc and for Grasshopper and The Ant which is located on A Bug's Life Blu-ray; would this mean the source is not the orignal negative but it's an upscale from Standard Definition (maybe Digibeta or so) ? (it''s not HD but SD?)
It clearly a wrong alignment of the 3 strips, but how can this happen ? And in which case? Positive print, digital combination of negative separate scans?
Any information would really be much appreciated

I believe this subject may have to led to an "apples and oranges" area as far as the technical is concerned.


I have not checked sources, and I could be incorrect, but something in the back of my mind is telling me that the earliest of the Technicolor Disney shorts were shot three-strip, which after a short period changed over to Sequential Exposure (SE), which was the format used for Snow White.


Three-strip elements could be problematic in registration of the records, while SE should not.


RAH

 

[edo1080]

This could explain why there's a mis-alignment in colors. As far as I can remember he short Thru the mirror on Alice in Wonderland Blu-Ray is not affected by this issue. On the other side I also heard that Disney vault had been only asked for negative scans of Classics and not of short, meaning the short source can be an upscaled digibeta or a 35mm positive print telecine. In both those cases the resolution would be not a true full HD one. If you could have some info by Disney Blu-ray production about the source it would be great. Thanks a lot for your reply.

 

[Lord Dalek]

I still say it looks like they used reissue dye-transfer ips for some of these like The Old Mill and The Grasshopper and the Ant (title cards give it away) and the registration problems are mostly the result of the bad optical combinations of the time. There pretty much isn't a thing as a vintage dye transfer print made from 3-Strip Technicolor that has 100% perfect registration.

 

[edo1080]

You mean in this case a positive print has been used as a source for HD Telecine /scan?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Lord Dalek

I still say it looks like they used reissue dye-transfer ips for some of these like The Old Mill and The Grasshopper and the Ant (title cards give it away) and the registration problems are mostly the result of the bad optical combinations of the time. There pretty much isn't a thing as a vintage dye transfer print made from 3-Strip Technicolor that has 100% perfect registration.

Registration on original prints was generally quite good. Whatever mis-registration might occur was generally hidden by the slightly softer optics used in the process, and the way that the dyes would combine with the mordant. Technicolor printing at Technicolor was very much an art, that was generally not replicated by others using standard optical printing techniques in re-combining records.


RAH

 

[edo1080]

What does this would mean? Could the source be a positive print (obtained by combining/aligning the 3 strips) instead of the original negative ?

 

[Lord Dalek]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris


Registration on original prints was generally quite good. Whatever mis-registration might occur was generally hidden by the slightly softer optics used in the process, and the way that the dyes would combine with the mordant. Technicolor printing at Technicolor was very much an art, that was generally not replicated by others using standard optical printing techniques in re-combining records.


RAH

Oh I don't disagree at all, generally the registration is definitely in the mid to upper 90s most of the time, but even on the vintage prints there are moments where the yellow layer are a little out of alignment. MusicLand, which I'm watching right now has a fair share of these instances.


Its really on a short to short basis. Flowers and Trees fares much better than Babes in the Woods for instance.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Originally Posted by edo1080

What does this would mean? Could the source be a positive print (obtained by combining/aligning the 3 strips) instead of the original negative ?

Yeah. I honestly don't think that the original negatives of Disney's 30s output would have easily identifiable reissue titlecards which a lot of the old prints they would run on the Disney Channel and release on dvd frequently did.


Most of these prints dated back to the mid 50's.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I managed to snag a very good used copy of the 3 Disc Diamond Edition via Canadian Amazon Marketplace for about $45 this afternoon.

The vintage cartoons were the main reason why I passed on the current Signature Set! I wasn't aware of the Title Cards for these being reissued versions, Does anyone know whether the originals exist?

At any rate, I'm looking forward to getting these in the next week or two!

CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Just a heads up on the supplements disc... there's eight classic cartoons in the Hyperion Studios section in 1080p:

Steamboat Willie
Music Land
Playful Pluto
The Skeleton Dance
Flowers and Trees
The Goddess of Spring
The Old Mill
Babes in the Woods

The Goddess of Spring looks upscaled, but the rest seem to be HD remasters.

So long as it isn't a 480i portover. In my opinion, the resulting stair step effect that tends to appear (I'm guessing because of the interlacing!) makes these look pretty terrible!

CHEERS!

 

[Lord Dalek]

Goddess of Spring is progressive. It just looks really terrible (all sorts of ringing and edge enhancement artifacts).

 

[Tony Bensley]

Goddess of Spring is progressive. It just looks really terrible (all sorts of ringing and edge enhancement artifacts).

Hi Joel!

Thanks for the feedback regarding GODDESS OF SPRING! I'll have to dig out the DVD version from the '01 SW release for comparison.

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

My used Diamond Edition set, which is minus the Slipcover (As was indicated!), has arrived! While the cover insert and plastic covering are a bit rough along the edges, the discs appear to be scratch free, at least!

I do look forward to viewing the discs at some point!

CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Attempting to access the Animated Shorts (Massive emphasis on ATTEMPT!), has proven to be a major nightmare! From having read the reviews that detail this aspect, I knew they were scattered about. However, the fact that this disc doesn't play nice with either my Cyberlink PowerDVD 12, nor free Leawo Blu-ray Players (Which keeps reverting back to the Language setup menu--UGH!!) makes for a most incredibly frustrating experience! I mean, when I was finally able to access THE GODDESS OF SPRING on Cyberlink, I didn't even get the bloody option to pause playback, for chris sake! To make matters worse, when I navigate to the wrong place, I can't even navigate back to the main menu--I have to shut down Cyberlink and effing start the slow and tedious process all over again!

I'm so mad, that I'm tempted to hurl the disc against a concrete wall! Playback just shouldn't be this bloody painful!!

Does anyone know what I can do to make playback of the Bonus disc a little less unpleasant, at least? Is there something that I'm missing?

CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

For me, the biggest downer is that, as frustrating as accessing the Animated shorts is, the only thing I can get on my Leawo Blu-ray Player is the bloody Language setup menu and the FBI warnings, as it just keeps looping back to the Language menu! So much for doing DVD/Blu-ray screenshot comparisons for THE GODDESS OF SPRING!

I effing HATE stupid@$$ Javascript! An unnecessary PITAH!!!!

Yeah, I'm mighty peeved! $45 bucks for this used Diamond set, and I can't even do a few lousy screenshots because the disc apparently HATES my Leawo Blu-ray player with a passion!

SHEESH!

 

[Tony Bensley]

OK, after some false starts, I was finally able to access the Animated shorts on my Leawo Blu-ray player via the Leawo playlist:

THE GODDESS OF SPRING (1934) Opening Titles:

Other Screenshots:

In just skimming through this Animated short, my only real issue is with the added Animated Curtains:

While I do realize this effect was added to reproduce the Cinematic experience, I'd prefer to be given that choice myself, thank you very much!

Interestingly (And thankfully!), the above device wasn't employed with every Animated short on this set, as a viewing of STEAMBOAT WILLIE (1928), the very first to feature what would soon become the famous Mickey Mouse character, revealed!

Other than that (And the windowboxing!), I don't see any issues regarding the visual quality! Let's face facts, 80 plus year old Films don't always fare all that well, even ones produced by Walt Disney! Think this is bad, try viewing the 1933 Ted Eshbaugh THE WIZARD OF OZ Animated short! Now that one looks as though the Film might as well have been dragged across a Porcupine's backside!

CHEERS!

 

[dbear]

The "fact" is that it's a dated master that doesn't hold up to Blu-ray level scrutiny and it could definitely look better. The more recent shorts restorations on the German Donald Duck Christmas Blu-ray look very impressive and curiously don't suffer from the aggressive grain removal they like to employ on their animated features.

Re: The 1933 Wizard of Oz cartoon: are you aware of the Thunderbean restoration?

 

[Tony Bensley]

Here's just a few THE GODDESS OF SPRING screenshots from the SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS 2001 Platinum Edition:

Unlike The Blu-ray Version, The '01 DVD Version Includes The Original Production Code Registry:

Also Unlike Its Blu-ray Counterpart, The DVD Version's Image Isn't Window Boxed. Unfortunately, Unlike The Blu-ray Version, The Image Quality Here Is Rather Lacking, In My Opinion:

Another Disadvantage I Found On My MPC-HC Player, Is That I Was Unable To Skip Forward On This Short, Which Is Why This Is My Last Screenshot:

For me, the Blu-ray version of THE GODDESS OF SPRING (1934) is the overall winner, despite the annoying windowboxing and missing historical Production Code Registry, which sadly, are not sufficient to overcome its shortcomings!

CHEERS!