A Few Words About A few words about...™ Halloween -- in BD (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Adkins]

I agree with you. Even a 1-ch mono TrueHD track would not take up much space.

 

[AlexBC]

I'm 100% with David Ruiz and Jeff Adkins regarding original soundtracks.


Why is it so hard for studios to include the original (mono or stereo) tracks for older films in lossless fashion. It should be nothing considering Blu-ray disc space and bandwith.

I can't understand their reluctance to do so.

A claim to the studios:

PLEAAAAAAAAAAAASE include original soundtracks in lossless audio format.

 

[Jack Johnson]

Posted this on the other Halloween BD thread:


Not sure how this weighs into the discussion about the color timing, but I did a side-by-side comparison of an ancient VHS transfer of Halloween from Media Entertainment from around 1985 (still in mint condition) with the '99 Dean Cundey approved dvd transfer. Both the dvd and VHS were viewed via component connection through a Panasonic DMR-ES35V dvd recorder, keeping my calibrated television's tint locked off and centered. Occasionally, I amped up the color saturation to check for the presence of blue in certain scenes.

On the VHS, the greens of the outdoor scenes featured in Dave's caps look to be a little cooler, greener than the Cundey transfer...but bluer than the vivid green hues seen in the Divimax dvd. The overall hue of neutral whites and earth tones seems to have been nudged up a bit in warmth on the approved dvd (to the red end of the spectrum). It's sublte, but Cundey's is definitely warmer. Again, this applies to the many outdoor scenes in daylight.

As for the infamous lack of blue in the night shots in Dave's caps, I would say that while blue tones are more present on VHS than in the Divimax dvd, the '99 Cundey transfer also sports a bit of a bluish sepia that is absent on the tape. With color adjusted to what appeared adequate but not over-saturated, the exterior of the house looked more primary white than blue, and the scene featuring The Shape breaking through the door offers just a hint of the blue tones seen on the '99 dvd. That said, the tape does not appear completely washed out or devoid of color as do the caps from the Divimax dvd.

In the end, the tape transfer--which looks to have been mastered from a pretty beat-up, unrestored print--is, perhaps, closer to the Divimax dvd than the '99 disc for the daylight exteriors, and somewhere between the Divimax and the Cundey transfer with regard to the blue, night hues.

 

[Dave H]

Now that, in my mind, the Dracula color timing situation is solved, has there been any new word on Halloween?

 

[ScottR]

I wonder if the scene where Michael breaks through the door in the kitchen when he is chasing Laurie was overlooked in the approved dvd version? I say this because in the first shot it is saturated in blue, then it cuts away, and when it cuts back, the shot is desaturated....was this an oops?

 

[Dave Mack]

I just watched the whole thing last nite, (gonna watch 2 tonite!)
and I also watched the original trailer and some of the TV spots on the BD disc. The shot of the shape breaking through the door in these is tinted blue, not as severely as the Cundey DVD but WAY more than the white looking door on the divimax and the HD transfer on the BD. It really looks like they drained the color in that scene now.

 

[Paul_Scott]

last few years I've been a big apologist for the DiviMax version- simply because it was the first and only version of the film on video that I could watch on a front projector without being completely distracted by compression artifacting or low resolution*
But in all honesty, I never actually sat down to watch the film start to finish with the DM disc. I did last night with the Bd, and came away fairly disappointed in the entire experience.
The blue hues are sorely missed in several of the sequences. Its like the soul has been drained out of the film at times, and all thats left is a perfectly preserved, ambulatory corpse.

But the other problem is I've just seen the film too damn many times in my life. And not only this film, but the innumberable hommages and immitations in the last 29 years. Its real hard to get 'up' for it anymore.
Unfortunately, even if they do correct the timing on a future release (which I have no doubt they will), they will probably drop the excellant doc so In any case I'll be keeping this disc

*or at least the Divimax was watchable on my previous pj which was an XGA. On the 1080p it was also pretty doggone artifact ridden, which made it extremely easy to sell off and upgrade.

 

[Paul Arnette]

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that the "truth" about the color-timing of this film probably lies somewhere in-between the Divimax and the Cundey-approved transfer. Sure the Cundey-approved transfer is, well, Cundey-approved, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be revisionist coloration.

 

[ppltd]

After initially killing my order do to all of the negative news surrounding this release on one of my favorite Horror films I decided to take the plunge and purchase it. Two quite points: This disk is a fine mastering, Great detail, no artifacts. That said, the lack of blue in the night shots gives the film a different feel. I remember how could almost feel the chill in the air in the night shots, a lot of this attributed to the blue cast. That feeling seems to be missing for me with this release. Here is hoping for a re-release with the colors right.

Still glad I got it though. Halloween never looked so good.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Agreed. I mean look at the Criterion transfers of Life of Brian and Time Bandits and how DVD Beaver complains about how they appear unnatural despite both being director approved.

All in the eye of the beholder I'm afraid.

 

[Paul_Scott]

that was my contention the last couple of years.
I saw this in the theater back in '79, but no way in hell I could ever remember what the timing looked like. Its entirely possible that the timing could have resulted from a happy accident when the film first appeared on home video about 25 years ago, and it just became accepted that was how it was supposed to look.

But watching the film again, it just seems so flat like this. There is simply no atmosphere to these sequences. They play bland and colorless in every sense of the word. All the activity is there, but the spirit is gone.

 

[Paul Arnette]

I agree, but I prefer the 35mm color timing to the Cundey-approved transfer, and now, apparently, there is P. J. Soles boob missing! That is where I'm drawing the line!

 

[Lyle_JP]

After comparing both DVDs to two different laser editions and two different VHS editions, there has never been a doubt in my mind that Cundey's transfer is wildly revisionist, AND so fuggin' dark that it's a wonder you can see anything. I'm still mystified by the insane adoration people here give that awful disc time after time. Perhaps this is the one everyone has seen so many times that they now think this is the way the film is "supposed to look". And even I'll admit, if Cundey says so, maybe this is the way he always wanted the film to look.

But the film never looked like that. Sorry THX-disc fanboys, but it just didn't. I'm not saying it looked exactly like the Divimax disc either (it didn't), but judging from the screencaps alone, the BD disc is spot-on to the way Halloween has always looked pre-1999. Cundey's attempts to digitally create fall from spring may look pretty, but pretty and accurate are not the same thing (see Lawrence of Arabia Superbit for further clarification).

Using the THX disc as a guide to how the film is supposed to look is just going to get you in trouble. The same issue keeps cropping up every time someone wants to use the older 007 DVDs to bash the new ones. It's a DVD, not an archival show print. Of course, I don't have access to one of those either, but if 5 different video releases over three decades look one way, and one release looks completely different, which do you think is logically the wrong one?

 

[TravisR]

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...7&postcount=21

 

[Paul_Scott]

after seeing that quote from Don May, I feel a little more confident in saying something that I hesitated to earlier.
To me, some of the scenes, like the one in the kitchen, very much look like they were manipulated to look more 'real'.
It looks like someone was playing around with the gamma and saturation/color balance levels to 'correct' for the blue.
I may take another look tonight so I can articulate what I was seeing better, but it seemed like the grain visible in the mids and shadows showed results of the global color being manipulated.

I wouldn't be suprised if the blue was there on the neg and dialed down digitally.
Hell, if nothing else, you can see the blue in several of the tv spots from '78.

 

[Paul Arnette]

Travis, all I can say is if you look at the comparison picture I posted above, I've seen moonlight that looks as blue as the hue in the 35mm print, but I have never seen a hue as blue as in the Cundey-approved transfer. It just doesn't look natural.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Looking at the camera negative will give you absolutely NO information about how the film was color timed in its original release. Color timing doesn't come into play until the answer print is made. Mr. May's comments are of little value other than the fact that colored filters were used over some the lights on the location shooting, which is obvious looking at any version of the film.

Doug

 

[Dave Mack]

EXACTLY! The blue IS there on the old preview and the TV spots!

 

[Lyle_JP]

For the record, I am not trying to defend the Divimax transfer, I am defending the blu-ray transfer which, like the previous two laserdiscs and two VHS editions, has blue but not electric blue. The Divimax transfer unquestionably took too much blue out in certain shots (but not every shot as some have erroneously claimed).

 

[Paul Arnette]

Dave, I don't think anyone is debating that there was blue, the real question, to me, is how much?