A Few Words About A few words about…™ Grease — in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[SimonTC]

I'm neither a fan nor supporter of 4K.
I'm just an old school guy who enjoys the look of film on the big screen. There's plenty of room in this HT hobby for both Blu Ray and film.

But with 4K UHD disc I've found is as close to projecting a print as you can get. Especially Sony 4K discs.
I, like you, thought standard 2K blu-ray was close enough. I was wrong.

 

[Worth]

But with 4K UHD disc I've found is as close to projecting a print as you can get. Especially Sony 4K discs.
I, like you, thought standard 2K blu-ray was close enough. I was wrong.

A projected 35mm release print is somewhere between 720p and 1080p, nowhere near 4K. Even projected 15/70 IMAX doesn't quite hit 4K.

 

[SimonTC]

A projected 35mm release print is somewhere between 720p and 1080p, nowhere near 4K. Even projected 15/70 IMAX doesn't quite hit 4K.

Not sure I agree with that, but it's more of a color & grain structure thing.

 

[Worth]

Not sure I agree with that, but it's more of a color & grain structure thing.

It surprised me initially, as well, but there was a study some years ago that measured the resolution of 35mm film in theatrical presentation.

http://www.motionfx.gr/files/35mm_resolution_english.pdf

The highest resolution averaged over the eight multiburst groups measured on the screens of the six selected movie theaters was about 685 lines/PH

The IMAX claim comes according to the Senior VP of Panavision:

https://library.creativecow.net/galt_john/John_Galt_2K_4K_Truth_About_Pixels/1

The 4K system that most people know is IMAX -- and it doesn't quite make 4K, which is a surprise to people. "How can that possibly be?," you say. "It's an enormous big frame." Well, because of what I was talking about earlier: the physics of optics. When you take the entire system into account - from the lens of the camera, to the the movement of the light through the projector, all slightly reducing resolution -- you wind up with less than the full resolution you started with.

A number of years ago some IMAX engineers - and I don't think IMAX ever let these guys out of their lab again -- did this wonderfully elegant experiment at the Large Film Format Seminar at Universal Studios Imax theatre. They showed this film they made that began with 2 rows of 2 squares: black white, white black, as if you had 4 pixels on the screen.

Then they started to double and double and double the squares. Before they got to 4K the screen was gray. Do you know what the means? There was no longer any difference between black and white, which is what allows you to see sharpness. It's the contrast that we see, not the actual information. Technically, the MTF (Modulation Transfer Function) was zero at 4K!

 

[titch]

A projected 35mm release print is somewhere between 720p and 1080p, nowhere near 4K. Even projected 15/70 IMAX doesn't quite hit 4K.

Steven Soderbergh on shooting 4K with an iPhone: "this is a 4k capture,” said Soderbergh, who was long a passionate advocate for the high-end RED cameras. “I’ve seen it 40 feet tall. It looks like velvet. This is a gamechanger to me.”

https://gizmodo.com/steven-soderbergh-loves-his-iphone-so-much-he-wants-to-1822522545

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Neither of you is crazy.

Hey, I never entertained the notion of my own insanity based on the Skynyrd tribute - I remember it far too well!

Thanks for digging that up on YT. I sure did hate that tribute 40 years ago...

 

[MatthewA]

Sound aside, the main attraction of the 1998 re-issue was that kids and teens who weren't born in 1978 and had only grown up with pan-and-scan home video versions all those years could finally see an OAR version. The screening I saw then was packed with teenage girls singing along, going "whoooooo" when Danny jumped off the car during "Greased Lightnin'", I mean they were really into it. 20 years had passed. 1970s nostalgia was in full swing. The bad career moves John Travolta made in the 1980s were behind him. Subsequent ones* had yet to be made. Pulp Fiction made him relevant in new Hollywood movies again and not a trivia question like the rest of the Sweathogs**, and (some of) the movies he made after that up to that point proved that was not a fluke. And Allan Carr, who never followed up on the success of it with anything as good or better, would not be around much longer. The time was right for a Grease re-issue. It even outgrossed that year's re-releases of The Wizard of Oz and Gone With the Wind!***

The screening I saw of this new restoration wasn't nearly as packed or as "interactive." But now, the film finally looks and sounds the way it was always supposed to.

*By which I mean Battlefield Earth. Why, which ones did you think I meant?
**Even after Lawrence Hilton-Jacobs gave the performance of a lifetime in The Jacksons: An American Family
***Disney had already given up on the regular theatrical release pattern by that point.

 

[Mark Booth]

My wife dragged me to this film (I was practically kicking and screaming) in 1978. I was absolutely convinced I would hate it.

How much do I hate it? I'm going to SHRED my 1998 Blu-ray!




And buy the 4K version!

Mark

 

[Jeff Adkins]

Steven Soderbergh on shooting 4K with an iPhone: "this is a 4k capture,” said Soderbergh, who was long a passionate advocate for the high-end RED cameras. “I’ve seen it 40 feet tall. It looks like velvet. This is a gamechanger to me.”

https://gizmodo.com/steven-soderbergh-loves-his-iphone-so-much-he-wants-to-1822522545

I thought it looked terribly soft when I saw it theatrically.

 

[Dave MJ]

I thought it looked terribly soft when I saw it theatrically.

Steven Soderbergh on shooting 4K with an iPhone: "this is a 4k capture,” said Soderbergh, who was long a passionate advocate for the high-end RED cameras. “I’ve seen it 40 feet tall. It looks like velvet. This is a gamechanger to me.”

https://gizmodo.com/steven-soderbergh-loves-his-iphone-so-much-he-wants-to-1822522545

The iPhone lacks dynamic range and color depth, which is more important than 4K resolution in making a cinematic image. The trailer demonstrates that along with the limitations of the built in lens. It's interesting and could work with a good story, but I don't see the iPhone replacing 35mm any time soon ;-).

 

[Carlo_M]

Yeah there's obviously a bit of hyperbole there. Just like in music production. A full Pro Tools rig costing tens of thousands of dollars manned by a team of professionals will turn out studio-quality albums. But nowadays someone with a decent Mac and Logic Pro X ($200) can do quite well by him/herself.

So yes, the 35mm, IMAX, Arri Alexa, et. al. don't have anything to worry about in terms of competition from the iPhone X (or XI or XII) in the pro market, but what the iPhone can do for a small-time filmmaker is similar to what Logic Pro X can do for an amateur musician. Get you very professional looking/sounding results for a minute fraction of the cost.

 

[Brian Kidd]

And Allan Carr, who never followed up on the success of it with anything as good or better, would not be around much longer.

........I love Can't Stop the Music........

 

[madfloyd]

Just heard from one of the most trusted posters at bluray.com that this has been severely DNR'd to remove grain. What a shame.

 

[Carlo_M]

More trusted than the person who restored Lawrence of Arabia, My Fair Lady, Vertigo and The Godfather films (to name just a few)?

(PS that's the first time I've ever seen/used that emoji...I wish it was Sulu "Oh my....")

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

A projected 35mm release print is somewhere between 720p and 1080p, nowhere near 4K. Even projected 15/70 IMAX doesn't quite hit 4K.

In terms of effective resolution, a good 35mm print is a little shy of 1080p. But that doesn't tell the whole story, because enlarging analog doesn't have the same issues as enlarging digital. Analog enlarged too much just looks soft. You enlarge digital too much, and you start seeing pixels.

 

[Robert Harris]

As previously noted, the individual(s) in charge of the project can create an end result to have grain seen in an OCN, an IP, or something else.

I had no problem with Grease.

 

[Mike Frezon]

More trusted than the person who restored Lawrence of Arabia, My Fair Lady, Vertigo and The Godfather films (to name just a few)?

(PS that's the first time I've ever seen/used that emoji...I wish it was Sulu "Oh my....")

 

[Mark Booth]

Watch this YouTube clip of the 40th Anniversary restoration:



At the 25 second mark, watch for this (look at John Travolta's forehead):

This is the same spot on the original Blu-ray:

I might not have noticed it happen while watching the 40th Anniversary Blu. But now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it.

Robert (or someone), please check the actual 4K disc to see if it's still there. Perhaps Paramount caught it and fixed it before the new discs got pressed?

Beyond that, the color timing of those two versions is AMAZINGLY different. I wonder which one is most loyal to the original appearance?

Mark

 

[PMF]

Steven Soderbergh on shooting 4K with an iPhone [...]

Talk about "calling it in".

 

[Robert Harris]

Watch this YouTube clip of the 40th Anniversary restoration:



At the 25 second mark, watch for this (look at John Travolta's forehead):

This is the same spot on the original Blu-ray:

I might not have noticed it happen while watching the 40th Anniversary Blu. But now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it.

Robert (or someone), please check the actual 4K disc to see if it's still there. Perhaps Paramount caught it and fixed it before the new discs got pressed?

Beyond that, the color timing of those two versions is AMAZINGLY different. I wonder which one is most loyal to the original appearance?

Mark

TC please.