A Few Words About A few words about...™ Dracula aka Horror of Dracula -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

The BFI did remark in a pre-release that the OCN was in great shape..They did not use terms like existing elements, or other sources. Wouldn't it be a strange comment to make about the OCN and then not use it?

From what I’m seeing on the Blu, the OCN does not appear healthy.

 

[JM1504]

From what I’m seeing on the Blu, the OCN does not appear healthy.

That is very interesting, what are you seeing that gives you that impression if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Robert Harris]

That is very interesting, what are you seeing that gives you that impression if you don't mind my asking?

Heightened grain structure, lost shadow detail, corrupted blacks.

 

[aPhil]

Heightened grain structure, lost shadow detail, corrupted blacks.

In other words, not the OCN but another element was used by the BFI ?

 

[John Hodson]

In other words, not the OCN but another element was used by the BFI ?

When they restored the film in 2007, the Bfi said:

...The film was restored from the original negative, except for the original British title and the censored scenes, which were from dupe negatives found in Warner Bros’ vaults. The original prints were released on IB-Technicolor prints, and Richard Dayton at YCM Laboratories in Burbank worked with Ben [Thompson] to achieve this particular look...

 

[RICK BOND]

My copy arrived Saturday morning. It is much darker than the UK Lionsgate bluray. I was comparing them going back and forth last night. Not Blueish either like the UK disc. But darker. Why Darker ? The trailer is the UK Dracula one, it has Green spots all through it. ? Oh well, what are you gonna do !

 

[martin kent]

According to a 1976 interview with Terence Fisher in Little Shoppe of Horrors magazine #19, The only scene Hammer ever asked him to film for export was The Hazel Court nude scene from The Man Who Could Cheat Death.

He aslo seems quite certain that Hammer never added anything to his films.

That suggests the rediscovered Japanese footage was not shot specifically for Japan, but was intended for all markets.
On the other hand if Anthony Hinds is on record saying it was shot specifically for Japan who are we to belive?

Just another Hammer mystery we may never get to the bottom of.

I don't know if I'm allowed to link to the interview with Terence Fisher as it's available online, but if you Google 'Terence Fisher Interview' you'll find it easily enough.

 

[KMR]

On the other hand if Anthony Hinds is on record saying it was shot specifically for Japan who are we to belive?

I don't read the reporting of Anthony Hinds' remarks as saying the extra material was shot specifically for the Japanese market. It was just included for them, having already been shot but trimmed from the official UK cut. So I don't see any discrepancy here.

 

[Reed Grele]

The WB Archive BD arrived here Tuesday.

So, having compared both, If I had my choice, I'd chose a version with the UK's shadow detail and the WB Archives color timing. I have no idea which is correct. If an IB Technicolor print should have less shadow detail, then so be it. But once you see what's there in the shadows, it's hard to unsee it.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The latest Warner Archive Podcast with George Feltenstein. It has a date of December 11th, but it didn't show up on my iTunes until today. Feltenstein and his colleagues talk about "Horror of Dracula".

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/warner-archive-collection-podcast

 

[haineshisway]

Mine arrived - how nice to have blue in the sky in the opening credits - watch the BFI UK disc - muddy brown. I'll watch it today at some point but just spot-checking it I'm certainly happy with the color. As for "shadow detail" I'd like to know who the first person was who came up with that term. Bob F. has spoken about this here or elsewhere - his IB Tech is darker like this Blu-ray and looking at the UK Blu it's simply too light.

 

[Timothy Bodzioney]

I'm frequently confused by the language used in describing discs and I went to film school. I know that it's easy to get used to the way movies have looked on past broadcast and television masters but it's amazing how few people posting have any idea what a movie should look like.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

People complained with the recent 4K restorations of the classic Universal horror films because they went back to the original theatrical timing. I have seen 35mm nitrate prints on several and the new masters match them perfectly.

Many vintage horror films have been overly brightened over the decades for television and home video masters. I am very pleased to see new restorations go back to the original theatrical timing as it replicates the atmosphere intended by the filmmakers.

I have personally screened a 1958 35mm Technicolor print of this film many times. It is not a visually bright and cheerful movie!

 

[Eastmancolor]

I had a British 16mm IB Technicolor print of this film and no matter what settings I use on my video projector, I can't replicate the look of that print with the UK disc. I think the UK disc does look nice overall, it just doesn't look like how the Technicolor print looked. As has been mentioned, the original prints were darker than what we're used to seeing with video versions. And you combine that with Technicolor's dye transfer printing you get a very rich looking image, with velvety blacks.

I may have to get the Warner Archive version as it sounds like it compares more favorably with the Tech prints.

 

[Timothy Bodzioney]

People complained with the recent 4K restorations of the classic Universal horror films because they went back to the original theatrical timing. I have seen 35mm nitrate prints on several and the new masters match them perfectly.

Many vintage horror films have been overly brightened over the decades for television and home video masters. I am very pleased to see new restorations go back to the original theatrical timing as it replicates the atmosphere intended by the filmmakers.

I have personally screened a 1958 35mm Technicolor print of this film many times. It is not a visually bright and cheerful movie!

The blu ray of Frankenstein Meets The Wolfman is a revelation, almost like seeing a different movie.
I’m excited to get the Warners blu ray of Dracula as well as Shout! Factory’s Dracula Prince of Darkness.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Agreed 100% and that's a title I used to have on 35mm nitrate. The Blu-ray matches the original theatrical timing perfectly!

 

[Timothy Bodzioney]

I’ve been watching the Universal horror movies since the late 60s when they were already 20 - 30 years old and always thought the opening scene of FMW is the scariest scene of the cycle. The correct timing makes it even scarier.

My remembrance of seeing the Hammer movies theatrically in the 60s and 70s bears little resemblance to what’s generally been available for the last 40 or so years. They’ve been timed way too brightly.

 

[haineshisway]

But that's the way home video and TV was - low-con prints. Now we can get the theatrical timing but of course it bears no resemblance to previous releases and these people, as has just been pointed out here, have never seen these films projected or they would know how foolish it is to compare things to previous releases. As to the catchphrases - shadow detail just showed up one day and is now in the top five of things that reviewers say - but no one really knows what it even means because it was made up by someone.

 

[Robert Harris]

But that's the way home video and TV was - low-con prints. Now we can get the theatrical timing but of course it bears no resemblance to previous releases and these people, as has just been pointed out here, have never seen these films projected or they would know how foolish it is to compare things to previous releases. As to the catchphrases - shadow detail just showed up one day and is now in the top five of things that reviewers say - but no one really knows what it even means because it was made up by someone.

That may have been me. The problem is poor quality dupes with lowered black levels.

 

[haineshisway]

That may have been me. The problem is poor quality dupes with lowered black levels.

I know they've picked up a lot from you OCN, O-neg - it always makes me laugh when I see people using these terms. But I'm not sure you got to shadow detail first. I understand what it means when you reference it - but I'm not sure they know what it means.