A Few Words About A few words about…™ To Catch a Thief (redux) – in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Nick*Z]

With all due respect, folks - some here have very strong opinions about what is right and what isn't and when they are asked to debate the point, they instead go on the war path. I'll just come right out and say that the comments made by hainshisway on the other To Catch a Thief thread have not augmented this discussion but were more of an attempt to silence anyone who contradicted his thoughts, even though at the time he made most of them he had yet to actually possess the new disc and critique the transfer for himself; challenging Alex on 'framing issues' and chastising me for merely suggesting something was remiss with the color in those ugly day-for-night scenes.

Here's the thing. This is a forum. I didn't join it to pee in anyone's cornflakes. As such, I rather expect fairness to be reciprocated when comments are made. It's supposed to be about the debate. Not about crushing any opinion that doesn't gel with your own. Frankly, I found his entire line of 'debating' very much in the defensive mode of attack. And, as this is the last I will be commenting on such things, rest assured, I'm not offended by his comments. I have a very thick skin where such things are concerned. Disgusted was more like it. But I've recovered.

And finally, I very much concur with Robert Crawford's point about with 'everything that's going on' even to debate our passion for movies and disc transfers with such invested resolve seems trivial at best. So, I'll simply end by wishing ALL of this forum's participants good health and safety in these trying times and forego commenting any further until such time as we can all smile freely and breathe untainted air. Best wishes in all things to everyone here. Now, definitely moving on!

 

[AlexNH]

I have no problem with anyone here. I just tried to provide information on the disc which Robert and Bruce dismissed over and over again. Robert said one of the most important viewpoints on blu is RAH. Now that RAH has weighed in, there's suddenly more important things in the world....

 

[willyTass]

its 2020 we shouldn’t have to be going back to DNR

 

[Robert Crawford]

I have no problem with anyone here. I just tried to provide information on the disc which Robert and Bruce dismissed over and over again. Robert said one of the most important viewpoints on blu is RAH. Now that RAH has weighed in, there's suddenly more important things in the world....

You still don't get it! Anyhow, for the last time, stop poking this bear.

 

[Harry-N]

I think I was prudent to go back and order the 2012 Blu-ray of this title. Researching the subject, I went back to read Robert Harris' take on that Blu-ray and it was quite favorable. If it was good then, it should still be good now.

Mr. Harris also mentions in that thread how he envies someone who will be viewing TO CATCH A THIEF for the first time. Count me as one of the fortunate ones. I've only ever seen five minutes of the opening on the awful 2002 DVD and couldn't watch any further - the picture was so bad.

 

[Alan Tully]

its 2020 we shouldn’t have to be going back to DNR

Yup, that's the thing about older transfers, sharpening & DNR. Of course (I my opinion) transfers do need a bit of DNR, I don't really want to see film grain at a normal viewing distance, but these things need to be applied with taste & at the smallest amount that they can get away with, & of course not every scene needs the same amount of DNR applied.

 

[Robert Harris]

Yup, that's the thing about older transfers, sharpening & DNR. Of course (I my opinion) transfers do need a bit of DNR, I don't really want to see film grain at a normal viewing distance, but these things need to be applied with taste & at the smallest amount that they can get away with, & of course not every scene needs the same amount of DNR applied.

in a Vista production, at a normal viewing distance, grain should be virtually invisible.

 

[Daniel Melius]

Thanks for your review. Hope to get your views on master of cinema Rio Grande and the soft picture of Criterions Destry Rides again.

 

[Mark B]

Has the source of the scan for this and the previous releases ever been established?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Don't believe so, but I suspect it's a 35mm reduction element, as opposed to the VVLA OCN, based on what I've viewed of the 2012 master. As RAH has said, grain should be near imperceptible on a VVLA production, as twice the frame area was being used.

 

[Robert Harris]

Don't believe so, but I suspect it's a 35mm reduction element, as opposed to the VVLA OCN, based on what I've viewed of the 2012 master. As RAH has said, grain should be near imperceptible on a VVLA production, as twice the frame area was being used.

keep in mind that just because one has extremely fine grain, doesn’t mean that, for some sort of exchange, someone isn’t ready to reduce it for you.

 

[haineshisway]

With all due respect, folks - some here have very strong opinions about what is right and what isn't and when they are asked to debate the point, they instead go on the war path. I'll just come right out and say that the comments made by hainshisway on the other To Catch a Thief thread have not augmented this discussion but were more of an attempt to silence anyone who contradicted his thoughts, even though at the time he made most of them he had yet to actually possess the new disc and critique the transfer for himself; challenging Alex on 'framing issues' and chastising me for merely suggesting something was remiss with the color in those ugly day-for-night scenes.

Here's the thing. This is a forum. I didn't join it to pee in anyone's cornflakes. As such, I rather expect fairness to be reciprocated when comments are made. It's supposed to be about the debate. Not about crushing any opinion that doesn't gel with your own. Frankly, I found his entire line of 'debating' very much in the defensive mode of attack. And, as this is the last I will be commenting on such things, rest assured, I'm not offended by his comments. I have a very thick skin where such things are concerned. Disgusted was more like it. But I've recovered.

And finally, I very much concur with Robert Crawford's point about with 'everything that's going on' even to debate our passion for movies and disc transfers with such invested resolve seems trivial at best. So, I'll simply end by wishing ALL of this forum's participants good health and safety in these trying times and forego commenting any further until such time as we can all smile freely and breathe untainted air. Best wishes in all things to everyone here. Now, definitely moving on!

I am completely baffled by this post. I have been VERY clear in every single post that I did not have this disc and therefore could not comment on it. What I can do and will do is respond to posts that are wrong, in terms of color and framing. I don't think I was rude to you in any post. This is a thick skin? I don't think so Nick. I responded to something you posted - I'd have to go back and look, but I am VERY careful here about how I post. You think I was the only one responding in that manner on that thread? I wasn't. Yet, you single ME out personally and I attempted to "silence" no one. This post you have made her IS insulting and you are clearly reading into my comments something that is in your mind, rather than the comments. I do understand tone is hard to discern, but if your accusations were true, I would have been contacted about it. Again, I am completely baffled by this and kind of irritated as well.

EDIT: Well, I went back to the other thread to see what caused this ATTACK on me personally from Nick. Here is the one post I made in response to his post:

"How do you know it's incorrect? His statement about green filters appears several times in this thread. Read and tell me what's hard to understand that he used the filters to achieve a SLATE BLUE effect. It's right there in his own words. No one knows what Mr. Hitchcock's original intent was other than the statement he made to Mr. Truffaut, which is very clear as to what his intention was, which was not green. I'd have to watch the Foussard scene, but in the previous Blu-ray it was TOO dark. In the IB prints you could clearly see what was going on. As to the car, are the other colors in the scene correct? If so, you don't seriously believe someone went in and made her car blue, do you? Then you say the new Blu advances in overall clarity and is razor sharp, while another poster is calling it a DNR travesty. I'm sure you can see the problem here.

Finally, does this look silver to you? Or are you saying it's silver in this release. Your sentence is a little confusing, but if I'm reading it the way I think you meant it, you're saying it SHOULD be silver, not blue."

Sorry, folks, I just don't see where I'm being such a nasty person that would cause this diatribe. I'm challenging his assertions, yes, because a couple of them were plain wrong. Color me still baffled.

 

[haineshisway]

in a Vista production, at a normal viewing distance, grain should be virtually invisible.

Absolutely right. And yet people think huge grain is what film is all about. Go know. And I'm really glad about the sharpness - if you visit the other thread you will see the smeary mess comments. They're even worse at the other jernt.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Guys: lets just discuss the release. Not each other...or each other's opinions. It's that easy.

 

[Alan Tully]

Ha, there's a lot to get right with these catalogue releases (or to put it another way, a lot can go wrong), so big respect to the teams at Sony & Warner, who hardly put a foot wrong (& Universal when they try). Paramount have done some really good work, & I hope that the rest of the series gets a lot of 5/5 scores, as there's a lot of Paramount catalogue titles that I'd really like to own (not that a 3/5 score would stop me buying a film I wanted).

 

[OliverK]

in a Vista production, at a normal viewing distance, grain should be virtually invisible.

Exactly. In my experience with large format productions on Blu-ray that have been handled well grain becomes more visible at about 2 to 1.5 screen widths away, more so with 35mm 8-perf than with 70mm productions. Even then it is not distracting at all but adds some texture to the experience. In cinemas with 70mm prints there will also be film grain so it is not like watching a movie in 70mm was a grain-free experience so to say, it was just much finer grain.

The clumsy messing with the grain in To Catch a Thief is a solution to a non-existent problem and Paramount will hopefully make better use of their resources in the future.

 

[willyTass]

I seem to recall none of this senseless degraining when Ron Smith was at the helm

 

[OliverK]

Not with the movies he was involved with.

Luckily we do not have to look any further than to a thread with him right here on this forum:

He just restored The Ten Commandments, now Ron Smith wants to hear from you: What Paramount films yo

Would it be possible to see a 6k frame straight from the scanner preferably of a more detailed scene? Has a 4k DCI version been prepared for cinematic exhibition? And last but not least: Do you have any other large format productions in the pipeline that will get a similar amount of...

www.hometheaterforum.com

Here is what he had to say about grain removal or "management":
If working with proper tools and with original elements, grain removal (now called “management”) is unnecessary and there is no studio pressure to remove it. I will leave any deeper discussion to the image processing purveyors who employ these tools.

It seems obvious that there are people who are working on Blu-ray and UHD releases at Paramount who do not share his views which is too bad.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

After seeing To Catch A Thief I was thinking about another film in a Mediterranean setting "It Started in Naples" with Clark Gable and Sophia Loren. Viewed the dvd last night and it being a Paramount & VistaVision release I hope for a Blu-ray to come out but have a feeling it will be low on their list. Maybe Kino might release it.

 

[OliverK]

After seeing To Catch A Thief I was thinking about another film in a Mediterranean setting "It Started in Naples" with Clark Gable and Sophia Loren. Viewed the dvd last night and it being a Paramount & VistaVision release I hope for a Blu-ray to come out but have a feeling it will be low on their list. Maybe Kino might release it.

After I read this post I noticed that vudu has it in HD - I am tempted now as I wanted to watch Naples for some time now.