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I love my new set up....but


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#1 of 12 OFFLINE   par3n1

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Posted January 03 2014 - 08:54 PM

I am so excited about my new home theater system but still I have questions. I am running a Pioneer Elite SC 07,  Pioneer Elite 200w amp pushing my homemade sub that weighs in at 150lbs and will talk to Whales BUT I wonder if my 5 BW Solid Monitor surrounds (150w) that a bought around 20 yrs ago from Crutchfield are quality enough. I think it sounds great but Ive never had anything to compare it to and there so small. How does one know if what they buy will sound any better in their set up then what they already have.... Any thoughts?


Edited by par3n1, January 03 2014 - 08:56 PM.


#2 of 12 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted January 04 2014 - 07:18 AM

Welcome to the forum Marc :)

 

Good speakers are timeless, meaning if they were very good to begin with its unlikely updating your speakers will have a big benefit,  even many years later.  What makes a very good speaker?  Accuracy.  A speaker should be a blank slate that faithfully reproduces the signal without adding or taking away.  It should be devoid of character, detailed, dynamic and full range, just like real sound.  In the case of home theater 'full range' would be considered down to 60Hz and without a loss (or gain) of more than 3dB anywhere along its performance range. 

 

All that having been said, and without finding any info on how they measure or compare to other speakers in their class,  I wouldnt be surprised if updating was a benefit.  While taking the time to audition speakers is universally recommended, I personally find that advice overrated and near impossible to implement in any place other than your own home.  If you find speakers, like the ones I describe above,  then the only thing you will manage to "dislike" about their performance is the source itself.   Every other difference,  between two different speakers,  is the amount that each speaker strays from accuracy.  The exception, to Type A's general rule of thumb, is whether a speaker is forward or more laid back.  While both styles of speakers can be of the same accuracy their way of going about that accuracy can vary based on the type of technology employed.  For example, I hate horn loaded speakers.  Despite being a highly-rated, accurate and very detailed speaker I can honestly say Klipsch speakers will never grace my home.   I also hate cheap speakers.   Not because theyre cheap but because often the tweeters are so harsh that eventually I get listener fatigue that I must seriously limit their use or turn them off to let my ears rest after a given period of time.

 

So, whats your budget and location?  We'll see if you have the resources to make the upgrade worth the time and money.  Also, whats your enviroment like, got pics of your listening room?  Youd be surprised how often the acoustics of the room is ignored. 


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#3 of 12 OFFLINE   par3n1

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Posted January 04 2014 - 09:19 AM

Ty, thank you for your response. I will try to figure out how to post some pics. It seems I need pics posted to a URL for a link and not just attaching them from my computer. My room couldn't be any less sound friendly. It measures 20x25 with cathedral ceilings, sun lights  and 172* ft of wall glass. But on the bright side....a carpeted floor.

 

My budget would depend on weather I could replace any two speakers of my 5.1 set up. Ive read its important to keep the center and fronts a matching pair so I was wondering about replacing my rears in the price range of 500.00 for the pair. Also in the back of my mind is the thought of dipoles for the rear.



#4 of 12 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted January 04 2014 - 10:04 AM

A photobucket account is free, they host pics.  Yeah that room does sound pretty antiacoustic, do you have any treatments now?  With your sub I would suspect bass traps at a minimum.  

 

Well it sounds like you might be better off staying with five identical speakers, which is actually the most prefered speaker system you can create. Might want to consider correcting room deficiencies first and saving for speakers in the future.   Only way I would recommend a dipole or bipole design is if your seating is too close to the surround channels and you are getting the speaker-in-the-ear effect from a seated position.  Often rooms are just not wide enough to allow proper surround channel distance which means the surround channels often call attention to themselves just because theyre too close.  Sounds like your room is plenty wide enough to allow for direct-firing surrounds as long as your seating is not too wide and you have 6' or better between the speaker and nearest sitting position.  Hate to break it to you but surrounds should be the last thing on your list, theyre the least used speakers of the bunch.  You are correct that the same identical speakers for all the speakers is the prefered method but especially for your front stage. 


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#5 of 12 OFFLINE   par3n1

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Posted January 05 2014 - 05:32 PM

I hope this link will allow members to see the layout of my room, While its as acoustically unfriendly  its all I got. Still I have to say it sounds "pretty, pretty, pretty good" (Larry David), IMHO. By the way the glass in the walls are 1" thick, if it matters acoustically.

 

http://s1096.photobu...html?sort=3&o=4



#6 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 05 2014 - 06:02 PM

I would actually buy(but then again, of course I would) 4 tower speakers(6 if you want to do 7.1).

 

The idea here, since this is multi-purpose....

 

Arrange the speakers in "correct" 5/7.1(as correct as possible) but, since they are towers(and would presumably leave enough wire) you can move them to the 4 corners of the room for "party mode"(or all channel stereo...depends what your AVR calls it).


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#7 of 12 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted January 05 2014 - 08:15 PM

That is one full room. With the amount of furniture in the room, and its layout, its hard to suggest much in the way of acoustic treatments. Seems to me youve done the best with what you have, except your front left and right speakers are too high. I would recommend remounting as close to ear level as possible, you can get away with high mounting the surrounds but the front stage needs to be close to ear level. I dont see your center speaker in the pics but then I dont see many options for it either. Even upgrading to towers the room is so full I dont think the money would justify the results, just my opinion. The room has potential but not as full as it is, even clearing out the room it looks like the TV nook is installed off-center, meaning the surround system will always be installed off-center as well.
JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#8 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 05 2014 - 09:23 PM

Looks like perfect placement for Yamaha with front/rear presence...run 9.1...(as in 5.1+2+2)


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#9 of 12 OFFLINE   par3n1

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Posted January 05 2014 - 09:27 PM

Thanks guys for the response. My center channel is also a B&W  monitor but its black and recessed far back atop the TV. Correct the tv is not in the center of the room but the MCACC feature of the receiver adjusted for the offset. Still im sure not being symmetrical must result in a sound loss.  Wow I didn't know the front speakers were to be the height of the center; that will be an easy fix but the "fun stuff" including the wet bar will stay :D. Looks like I have a game room with tunes, projector and tv but then again I've never shot pool, played foosball or gambled in a movie theater.



#10 of 12 OFFLINE   par3n1

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Posted January 05 2014 - 09:53 PM

My AV calls stereo mode "Expanded" and  everyone makes a good point. I was thinking about two more speakers for a 7.1 set up.  I will defiantly research the Yamaha front and rear presence and learn of the 5.1 2+2 but I do have 7.1 on my receiver so I will compare the two. I have a couple extra Carver amps perhaps I could use one on a set of rear speakers. Just thinking aloud and always ready to learn from the members here.

Thanks again  



#11 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 05 2014 - 09:58 PM

By the way...I'm always consistent in my recommendations...

 

1. Buy more(proponent of height and width)

2. Buy big(biggest speakers you can handle)

3. Buy used when you can.



#12 of 12 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted January 06 2014 - 06:19 AM

My AV calls stereo mode "Expanded" and  everyone makes a good point. I was thinking about two more speakers for a 7.1 set up.  I will defiantly research the Yamaha front and rear presence and learn of the 5.1 2+2 but I do have 7.1 on my receiver so I will compare the two. I have a couple extra Carver amps perhaps I could use one on a set of rear speakers. Just thinking aloud and always ready to learn from the members here.
Thanks again


Tunes are a different matter. I would consider adding music towers (a $300 pair of Infinity 363 or 362 perhaps?), driven with those Carver amps, before expanding your surround sound. For surround sound; pull that center out to the front edge of the TV cabinet and get those fronts lowered to ear level (or as close as possible) and rerun MCACC, see how it sounds first. If you do decide to add presence to your front stage do your best to do it with an additional pair of BW Solid Monitor.
JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*




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