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Criterion Press Release: It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World (Dual Format)

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#321 of 1814 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

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Posted October 18 2013 - 03:16 PM

Is it too soon for a release day countdown timer?

#322 of 1814 OFFLINE   rmw650

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Posted October 18 2013 - 03:28 PM

But just enjoy it Joe...at least we get to still enjoy the film and in the way it was meant to be shown and in pristine condition. Better late than never, i always say. We waited and we got rewarded. Just a few months away!



#323 of 1814 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted October 18 2013 - 04:27 PM

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Is it too soon for a release day countdown timer?

 

 


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There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#324 of 1814 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted October 18 2013 - 04:29 PM

I guess that works.  It does represent an East Coast, US bias...1.) because I live on the East Coast; and 2.) because it'll be 1-21-14 here first! 

 

:biggrin:

 

Maybe Ron will want to stick the counter in his signature!  :laugh:


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There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#325 of 1814 OFFLINE   Neil S. Bulk

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Posted October 18 2013 - 06:11 PM

We recorded to the longer version; I was insistent about that, since I felt that would be the version most people would be watching. The pickups we'll be doing will be for some subsequently added footage and a few places where stuff was cut because it was redundant or deemed insufficiently relevant.

 

Mike S.

 

Thank you for the reply!



#326 of 1814 OFFLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted October 18 2013 - 06:39 PM

No. It would not have matched at all with surrounding actual color. Colorization, on its own, is one thing. But don't place it next to an actual scene and think it will work. It doesn't.

Been there, done that.

RAH

 

Belated congratulations on this heroic reconstruction Mr. Harris. When first mentioned here, I just couldn't imagine someone with your IAMMMMW history and restoration experience not being intimately involved in such an ambitious 'Geek Holy Grail' project. Frankly, I didn't buy for a second any of the admonishments otherwise...especially those downplaying or dancing around the extent of your role these past months. Nice try though everyone...  ;)

 

Now, about this innovative partial colour recovery solution you devised...I am still trying to wrap me wee ole noggin around what that will actually look like:

 

For this project every viable trim was scanned by FotoKem and aside from the color missing, they looked great. But how can you re-color shots? The secret is in the trims scanned 20 years ago. All that exists there is a 480 line color record. Robert Harris figured out a way to take that record and combine it with the new scans of the trims, giving as much color back to the shots as is possible.

 

I was intrigued enough by the simple genius of your solution (though not simply achieved, I'm sure) to try simulating (more or less), the 60% worst case colour field recovery from those 20 year old Japanese scans with the burned in subtitles. Does the result look even remotely like this?

 

2bei.jpg

 

BTW Mr. Harris, if this purely 'what if' simulation is w-a-y off, and/or considered damaging to the quality of your recovery work on IAMMMMW, or you have a more accurate frame grab of your own you wish to share, I will completely understand if you want me or a MOD to remove this image. My only interest in posting it was purely as a discussion point for what such an unusual new technique might look like when applied to a vintage film element. Like I said, it's just such an original approach, I simply have no specific frame of reference...


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#327 of 1814 OFFLINE   moviebuff75

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Posted October 18 2013 - 07:27 PM

This will definitely be shown at my outdoor theater, SkyDome Cinema. Will be great seeing it on the big screen.


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#328 of 1814 OFFLINE   Vahan_Nisanain

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Posted October 18 2013 - 07:41 PM

Roland, one question I have:

 

Did any redubbing of voices need to be done for any of the newly-added scenes? It's a common thing to do if the original sound tapes no longer exist for the deleted scenes, like the missing scenes in Bedknobs & Broomsticks for example.


Edited by IntoIt, October 18 2013 - 07:51 PM.


#329 of 1814 OFFLINE   Richard Gallagher

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Posted October 18 2013 - 08:14 PM

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This thread is a textbook example of why HTF is the best in the business. Where else can you get the inside scoop about how this fabulous Blu-ray has been created from the people who actually did the work? And you cannot read this thread without feeling the passion which HTF members have for It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World.

 

January 14 can't come soon enough!


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Rich Gallagher

#330 of 1814 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted October 18 2013 - 08:19 PM

This thread is a textbook example of why HTF is the best in the business. Where else can you get the inside scoop about how this fabulous Blu-ray has been created from the people who actually did the work? And you cannot read this thread without feeling the passion which HTF members have for It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World.

January 14 can't come soon enough!


What Richard said. This forum makes watching movies an event and not just passing time. Thanks to all.
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#331 of 1814 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted October 18 2013 - 09:03 PM

Now, about this innovative partial colour recovery solution you devised...I am still trying to wrap me wee ole noggin around what that will actually look like:
 
I was intrigued enough by the simple genius of your solution (though not simply achieved, I'm sure) to try simulating (more or less), the 60% worst case colour field recovery from those 20 year old Japanese scans with the burned in subtitles. Does the result look even remotely like this?
 
2bei.jpg


Steve, I must be great at describing things because that's pretty bang on. I'd say the main difference was in the shot I saw (which was Sylvester and Mrs. Haliburton in bed) was that it was even a bit less color image than that and it was all shifted up to the top to avoid the subs. That sort of shot is only for the very worst of the bunch. The shots where the difference was only in the size of the scans it was just a very mild fringe of B&W, which was of course more pronounced on the sides as you anticipated (due to the 480 master being closer to 2.35 than 2.76).

The funny thing is all this talk made me break out my LD again, and there are many places in the first half hour where the 2.35 image is Panned and Scanned! Something I never caught before.
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#332 of 1814 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted October 18 2013 - 09:07 PM

Roland, one question I have:
 
Did any redubbing of voices need to be done for any of the newly-added scenes? It's a common thing to do if the original sound tapes no longer exist for the deleted scenes, like the missing scenes in Bedknobs & Broomsticks for example.


RAH has commented earlier that subtitles will be used for these types of scenes.
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#333 of 1814 OFFLINE   Reed Grele

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Posted October 18 2013 - 09:16 PM

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This is as close as I got tonight to getting IAMMMMW on the new screen:

 

20131019_005511.jpg

 

Too tired from working late last night on the frame. And I still need to get some hardware to hang it with.

 

I was going to make a special adjustable black border out of something or other, but for now I think I'll just use black velvet tape.

 

Tomorrow is another day.

 

 


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#334 of 1814 OFFLINE   Vahan_Nisanain

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Posted October 18 2013 - 09:47 PM

RAH has commented earlier that subtitles will be used for these types of scenes.

 

Good to know.

 

I wonder how the original spoken dialogue remained intact for the newly-added scenes from late 80's/early 90's video prints?

 

Finally , I noticed a VHS version as 182 minutes, and a laserdisc version as 188 minutes. What's the difference?


Edited by IntoIt, October 18 2013 - 09:58 PM.


#335 of 1814 OFFLINE   John Stockton

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Posted October 18 2013 - 10:51 PM

Please forgive me if this has been answered already, but is the 197 min version transfered entirely from original 65 MM elements??



#336 of 1814 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted October 18 2013 - 11:39 PM

Please forgive me if this has been answered already, but is the 197 min version transfered entirely from original 65 MM elements??

The following post from Moe Dickstein should answer a part of your question.  Perhaps RAH will fill in the rest.

 

So heres a brief note on what I recall off the top of my noggin, RAH can correct any mistakes I make hopefully...

About 6 weeks ago I was invited by Mr. Harris to come visit him at FotoKem where the work was being done on this new reconstruction. Criterion has had this in the works for quite some time and I believe it's a personal favorite of Peter Becker's.

The situation with the missing footage is pretty dire. All that survive are various trims from 70mm prints from when the film was taken down to the shorter cut. Some scenes survive with picture and audio, but some only picture, and some only audio. All of the 70mm material has turned to magenta at this point and a good deal of it had already decomposed and warped past usability several years ago.

On top of this, as was seen in the laserdisc, some shots were from "rectified" prints, which means that they were squeezed on the edges and stretched in the center to properly project onto a deeply curved Cinerama screen. Other trims were from a Japan-prepared print and had burned in subtitles!

On the laserdisc, many scenes were reinstated, but not in the place they had been in the original cut. The rectified scenes were left distorted, continuous shots had scenes re-edited to hide the jump cuts due to missing frames, and the Japanese print material was zoomed in some 40% to avoid the subs. It was the best they could do at the time.

Now, some 20 years later, the trims have turned totally magenta, the other color layers are gone. What remains is the resolution and the magnetic 6 track audio. Thankfully it seems the stereo channels were located otherwise, but the possibility was there to get some sound off those prints if it came to that.

For this project every viable trim was scanned by FotoKem and aside from the color missing, they looked great. But how can you re-color shots? The secret is in the trims scanned 20 years ago. All that exists there is a 480 line color record. Robert Harris figured out a way to take that record and combine it with the new scans of the trims, giving as much color back to the shots as is possible.

The secret is in technology developed to convert films to 3D. The computer program takes dozens of points across the identical frame in both versions, and then warps them together into perfect alignment. This also accounts for any unusual shrinkage in either element, and because the eye doesn't see color at the same resolution, having them combined gives a result that would have been impossible only a couple years ago. The only hitch is that the 480 material didn't cover the entire frame, so you will know those shots by a small fringe of black and white all around the borders. This is great from a reference standpoint though as you can really see the different amounts of frame exposed in different transfers. At FotoKem we could see the sprocket holes on the film, so you knew that was EVERYTHING in those scans. The most evident scenes are those with the Japanese subs, where only about 60% of the image will have color due to the zoom in done 20 years ago. Again, the result of this process was nothing short of jaw dropping to me.

Other scenes which were missing audio I believe have had some work done, (RAH can you comment on how the missing audio scenes were handled?) Scenes existing in audio only have been reconstructed using a variety of stills in the style of A Star is Born, but this time there were a LOT more stills to work with than they had on that project so the result is hopefully better.

All in all the run time of 197:40 with music means that only about 3 minutes of the full cut are missing from this reconstruction. Even now they are still finishing it up, adding frames of audio and such so that it is going to be the closest we will ever come to a full version and something most of us had given up all hope of ever seeing.

It's been excruciating to keep quiet on this, but worth knowing that everyone was going to get this special gift.


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#337 of 1814 OFFLINE   John Stockton

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Posted October 19 2013 - 12:32 AM

^ Thanks I read this as well but I really can't find an answer to my question. 



#338 of 1814 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted October 19 2013 - 12:36 AM

^ Thanks I read this as well but I really can't find an answer to my question.

Which is why I mentioned RAH commenting further on your question.


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#339 of 1814 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 19 2013 - 04:18 AM

Steve, I must be great at describing things because that's pretty bang on. I'd say the main difference was in the shot I saw (which was Sylvester and Mrs. Haliburton in bed) was that it was even a bit less color image than that and it was all shifted up to the top to avoid the subs. That sort of shot is only for the very worst of the bunch. The shots where the difference was only in the size of the scans it was just a very mild fringe of B&W, which was of course more pronounced on the sides as you anticipated (due to the 480 master being closer to 2.35 than 2.76).
The funny thing is all this talk made me break out my LD again, and there are many places in the first half hour where the 2.35 image is Panned and Scanned! Something I never caught before.


The panning and scanning was done to titled shots with movement.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#340 of 1814 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 19 2013 - 04:28 AM

Please forgive me if this has been answered already, but is the 197 min version transfered entirely from original 65 MM elements??


Trims are derived from 70 prints. The body of the film, ie 154 minutes is 65mm IP.

As to audio, since in 70mm projection, the audio precedes image by one second, each trim held about one second of previous audio, and was missing the final second. Where possible, missing audio has been filled. In other instances, original mag rolls were used.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence






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