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Active 3d or Passive


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 OFFLINE   michael deakin

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Posted May 02 2013 - 12:15 PM

We are about to upgrade to a 3d tv but not sure which tech to go for. Should we opt for a "LG" passive or a "Panasonic" active, Both are 55" and about the same cost. Any thoughts?

                                                                                          Thanks in advance.    


Edited by michael deakin, May 02 2013 - 12:16 PM.


#2 of 16 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted May 02 2013 - 02:02 PM

Active all the way and Panasonic, passive 3D as displayed by the LG brand has weaknesses right now, they cannot display full vertical resolution and you will see some scan lines when viewing 3D, basically they slightly blur the image in vertical resolution although you won't notice that with the glasses on, personally if i was you i'd go buy a Samsung or Panasonic plasma display because i think they offer better all round image quality, LCD does have the brightness going for it though which is good for 3D.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#3 of 16 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

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Posted May 02 2013 - 02:40 PM

Here's my first hit from Google, with pictures to illustrate the differences:

 

http://reviews.cnet....d-whats-better/

 

(I have Active 3D DLP.)


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#4 of 16 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted May 02 2013 - 03:10 PM

I third for active.  The passive reminds me of the scan lines when I got my first gen DVD player.  Very distracting and it really impacts the picture.  Passive will be workable when they use it with a 4K set that can give you 1080p to each eye, not before.  Good luck with the new TV!


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#5 of 16 OFFLINE   sidburyjr

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Posted May 02 2013 - 07:31 PM

Go to a store and look. If you nag them they will actually bring out some actual glasses that are not mounted on anti-theft devices so you can actually see what they look like.  All of the passive I've seen have looked OK.  At least two of the active I've seen have had a shimmering effect.  This could be because I had cataract surgery and have lenses implanted in my eyes.  Some of the active sets have also looked fine to me.



#6 of 16 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted May 03 2013 - 03:44 AM

Go to a store and look. If you nag them they will actually bring out some actual glasses that are not mounted on anti-theft devices so you can actually see what they look like.  All of the passive I've seen have looked OK.  At least two of the active I've seen have had a shimmering effect.  This could be because I had cataract surgery and have lenses implanted in my eyes.  Some of the active sets have also looked fine to me.

 

The shimmering effect is due to lighting that you find in most stores, fluorescent lighting in particular causes havoc with active 3D glasses, there is no shimmering if you use a backlight for your television, indeed i am a plasma active 3D fan and the reason LCD sells better in most stores is that it goes brighter and looks better in a shop environment, in a normal home though the plasma when set up correctly looks far more stunning, the exception is if its an LG - yes i mean that, LG plasma is nowhere near as good as Samsung or Panasonic.


Edited by FoxyMulder, May 03 2013 - 10:11 AM.

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     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#7 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted May 03 2013 - 06:01 AM

Greetings

 

More light loss with the active system than the passive system. 

 

Also comes down to the choice of cheap glasses or more expensive glasses.  The Active ones are more expensive.

 

On paper, the passive has less resolution than the active, but in practice, it is close since the brain acts as a video processor and fills in the missing information to make both images similar.

 

More people get headaches with the active system than the passive ones.

 

Regards


Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network - TLVEXP.com


#8 of 16 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted May 03 2013 - 06:59 AM

We are about to upgrade to a 3d tv but not sure which tech to go for. Should we opt for a "LG" passive or a "Panasonic" active, Both are 55" and about the same cost. Any thoughts?

                                                                                          Thanks in advance.    

Here's the most in-depth analysis I've seen to date on your question: http://www.displayma..._ShootOut_1.htm .   However, other equally astute experts in the field reach a different conclusion on which format is best, such as Joe Kane's series of articles on this topic in 'Widescreen Review' magazine.  Here is a link to similar information on Joe Kane Productions' web site:  http://www.videoessentials.com/3D.php .  Just keep in mind that humans tend to make assumptions based upon theory that may not hold true in practice.  In other words, not all manufacturers' implementation of a common technology will perform the same.

 

Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.

A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

 

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


Edited by GeorgeAB, May 03 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#9 of 16 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted May 03 2013 - 08:13 AM

Interesting article but it seems conclusions are being reached which can be challenged, especially the myth that we sit far enough away that we therefore don't see the scan line effect on passive TV's and that our brains put together a 1080p image despite passive being half the vertical resolution, i don't buy it, reviews i have seen from respected people who have calibrated the sets and sit at the correct distance always mention the scan line effect and the half resolution effect, i just don't buy into any of that article.

 

I have a Samsung E6500 plasma ( 60 inch version ) and last years Panasonic 3D glasses, i sit 7.3 feet away from the screen, i see beautiful flicker free images, i use a backlight behind the TV which helps because it keeps the eyes irises open in a dark viewing environment and as for crosstalk, it's so little it's hardly worth talking about, i feel crosstalk may have been more visible on the 2010/2011 sets and glasses combinations but tech moves on.

 

Until 4K televisions and projectors become the norm and we can get 1080p per eye i think active is far and away better, my opinion is based on research and reviews and having seen it for myself in a specialist shop which has a dedicated room for viewing.


Edited by FoxyMulder, May 03 2013 - 08:22 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#10 of 16 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted May 03 2013 - 09:12 AM

..... i use a backlight behind the TV which helps because it keeps the eyes irises open in a dark viewing environment .....

You have this fundamental principle backwards.  The iris opens more to allow additional light to enter the eye in darker conditions.  As ambient light increases, the iris gets smaller.  Perhaps you might benefit from another, more thorough, review of the articles I linked to, and a fresh appraisal of your perspective. 

 

Dr. Soneira's conclusions and anlysis are not his alone, but shared by a wide mix of varying types of viewers during the tests, as mentioned clearly in the article.  How much time have you spent viewing passive 3D displays, and side by side with active ones?  Dr. Soneira's test methods are impressively thorough, as are his history and credentials:

 

"Dr. Raymond Soneira - Founder, President and CEO of DisplayMate Technologies Corporation

The developer of DisplayMate is an internationally recognized research scientist with a distinguished career that spans physics, computer science, and television system design. Dr. Soneira obtained his Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics from Princeton University, spent 5 years as a Long-Term Member of the world famous Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, another 5 years as a Principal Investigator in the Computer Systems Research Laboratory at AT&T Bell Laboratories, and has designed, tested, and installed color television broadcast equipment for the CBS Television Network Engineering and Development Department. He has authored over 35 research articles in scientific journals in physics and computer science, including Scientific American.

Dr. Soneira's background covers a wide spectrum of internationally recognized leading edge research in electronics, optics, applied mathematics, theoretical and experimental physics. For example: he has designed color television broadcast equipment for the CBS Television Network, built a computer mathematical model of a television system for optimizing the camera to receiver performance and accuracy of the optics and electronics for CBS, a leader of a team at Bell Labs Research that built intelligent autonomous mobile robots, designed an all-electronic 360 degree viewing angle imaging laser range finder using the parallax principle, did the mathematical foundation of the fine guidance system for the Hubble Space Telescope, built the accepted standard model of the Milky Way Galaxy (which is named after him), built theoretical high redshift cosmological and stellar models for the Hubble Space Telescope, has done fundamental work on the analysis of clustering and super-clustering of galaxies, plus work in Relativity and nuclear physics.
 

Dr. Soneira works with the 200+ publications that use DisplayMate for editorial testing and lab reviews of video hardware. He has written numerous articles for Consumer, Professional, display marketing, and Research publications, such as Widescreen Review Magazine, PC Magazine, Ziff-Davis' ExtremeTech, CNET, Presentations Magazine, Maximum PC Magazine, the Society for Information Display's Information Display Magazine, and a large number of display marketing and Professional Audio-Video publications. His articles have been translated into several languages and have appeared in over 30 publications worldwide."  http://www.displaymate.com/about.html



#11 of 16 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted May 03 2013 - 09:38 AM

Yes i suppose i got the iris part wrong in the way i understood it but the principle of the backlight helping keep eyestrain at bay is a good one and the reason i do it when wearing 3D glasses, as for re-thinking my opinion, why, just because someone is a research scientist doesn't mean their opinion is more valid than for example someone who is a trained calibrator and reviews 3D televisions, go over to HDTV Test and read some reviews there as just one example of a difference of opinion with regards passive 3D and they are a qualified calibrator.

 

The good doctor, i read some of his other views, doesn't even mention the fact plasma usually has around 900 to a full 1080 lines while in motion but LCD sets tend to be 300 lines with interpolation switched off, i guess he doesn't think it's important, well if you are going to pit different display technologies against each other i think it should be mentioned, sorry i am not going to be impressed just because i am read a list of credentials, if i view a very good television set with passive 3D and its set up in perfect viewing condition and calibrated and i see the thick black lines and less detail then in no way would i endorse such a set, active 3D on my Samsung is extremely detailed, it's why i bought it, no passive TV set can offer that amount of detail, that is a fact, whether you or the good doctor agree is fine but it still remains a fact.


Edited by FoxyMulder, May 03 2013 - 09:39 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#12 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted May 03 2013 - 09:51 AM

Passive only exists on LCD, therefore...it is automatically not as good as active.

Of course that is an apples/uglifruit comparison...
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#13 of 16 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted May 03 2013 - 10:04 AM

Passive only exists on LCD, therefore...it is automatically not as good as active.
 

 

Exactly.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#14 of 16 OFFLINE   michael deakin

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Posted May 05 2013 - 01:36 PM

Thanks guy's for all your advice.

We have just put a deposit down on a "Panasonic" 55ST60.

We have been told it could take between 4 to 6 weeks before we recieve it, so all we can do is wait and im not a patient person. 



#15 of 16 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted May 06 2013 - 08:11 AM

Thanks guy's for all your advice.

We have just put a deposit down on a "Panasonic" 55ST60.

We have been told it could take between 4 to 6 weeks before we recieve it, so all we can do is wait and im not a patient person. 

 

Did you try Amazon, the 60 inch version is selling for not much more than the 55inch and they deliver much faster in my experience, ignore the it ships in 1 to 2 months part, they should have it a lot faster than that.

 

http://www.amazon.co...nasonic" 55ST60

 

Personally if its 3D you want and NO image retention whatsoever then i'd go for last years Samsung E6500, it's $1479 on Amazon right now and in stock for immediate delivery, i have this set and can tell you its great, the 3D is full hd and very detailed.

 

The Panasonics have lessened resolution in 3D due to the way their sets operate, this can result in jaggies/aliasing on some scenes, the brightest and darkest screen updates are drawn at 1080p resolution, with intermediate brightness steps displayed at 540p a side effect of a panel drive system known as single scan 3D, thanks to HDTV test for that last bit of info, mind you to be fair the Samsung has a mild issue with brightness pops, note that we in the UK have a different meaning for brightness pops than what you call it in the USA, it is NOT floating blacks, brightness pops describes an issue where the screen will appear to shift brightness levels during some brighter scenes, for example scenes where the camera pans across a landscape containing darker tree's and bright blue skies, doesn't always happen, it's mild. if you watch ice hockey a lot you may notice it more.

 

The newer Panasonics have far better brightness though which is good for 3D, although the Samsung F8500 is even brighter yet but far too expensive, black levels between the new Panasonics and the F8500 are almost identical now.


Edited by FoxyMulder, May 06 2013 - 10:12 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#16 of 16 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

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Posted May 22 2013 - 12:07 PM

I'm another vote for active 3D, both as a 3D buff and a film buff overall. I have a 50" Panny and would never go back to LCD for 2 reasons:

1. My primary viewing room is in the basement, so light control is not an issue; and

2. Colour accuracy: Plasmas, by virtue of their display methodology, have better colour and better colour accuracy. LCDs have a tendency to look oversaturated, which results in some weird depth anomalies with HD material-watch something with a deep blue background and tell me there isn't an artificial "pop" effect.

Passive displays remind me far too much of old school CRTs with interlacing issues. The 3D effect is solid, as is brightness, but the reduced resolution is far too distracting.


Edited by Stephen_J_H, May 22 2013 - 12:07 PM.

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