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Potential Moulin Rouge DTS Problem


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247 replies to this topic

#1 of 248 OFFLINE   Brendon

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Posted December 13 2001 - 02:50 AM

Guys,

Many people over here in the UK have received their region 1 copies of Moulin Rouge.

A small number of us, predominantly those with Pioneer players, are experiencing chronic lipsync errors with the DTS soundtrack.

The sound is completely out, not merely a frame or two, lending the actors the appearance of being very badly dubbed!

The Dolby Digital 5.1 track is unaffected. I haven't tried, nor have I heard reports of, any problems with the Dolby Digital 2.0 track.

Apparently the R4 disc exhibits no DTS problems, but may suffer due to the 4% speed up due to PAL. Does anyone know how well DTS tracks transfer from standard 24fps film/30fps NTSC environments to PAL ?

I hasten to add that my problem (along with others experiencing the same) seems confined to Pioneer players only, no others. I'm currently trying to see if I can isolate the problem down further to specific models.

DTS problems not withstanding, it has to be said that both the transfer and the supplements on Moulin Rouge are tremendous!

Should anyone else experience similar problems, could you post in this thread ?

Cheers,

Bren

#2 of 248 OFFLINE   kevin_asai

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Posted December 13 2001 - 04:38 AM

I have the R1 disc and I am facing the same problem. The picture and the sound doesn't sync in some scene when I choosed DTS track. Dolby 5.1 on Moulin Rouge DVD doesn't have this problem.

#3 of 248 OFFLINE   Christopher a

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Posted December 13 2001 - 05:17 AM

Kevin, what player do you have?

#4 of 248 OFFLINE   kevin_asai

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Posted December 13 2001 - 05:19 AM

I am using HTPC to play the DVD. That lip-sync problem is really annoying in some scene especially at the Your Song Posted Image

#5 of 248 OFFLINE   Julian Lalor

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Posted December 13 2001 - 10:02 AM

I have the R4 version, and there is definitely no lip synch problems on the DTS track. I don't hear the PAL speed up, so I can't comment on whether it is going to be a problem for those who do hear it - it certainly sounded the same to me as the soundtrack. It may have been pitch corrected.

#6 of 248 OFFLINE   Richard Michael Clark

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Posted December 13 2001 - 10:18 AM

A bit off topic but I have the R4 version and it is the first musical in PAL where I haven't noticed the speed-up!
Which is fab!
Does anyone know if it's possible that the movie was shot at 25fps, thus avoiding any speed issues with the PAL format?

#7 of 248 OFFLINE   Mikael Soderholm

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Posted December 13 2001 - 09:11 PM

I watched my R4 copy in dts on my Pioneer DV-515 last night, no sync probs Posted Image.

Not sure if it was pitch-corrected, but I guess it was, as I didn't notice it sounding funny, an I think I would have, considering the number of times I have listened to the soundtrack while waiting for this awesome disc to finally show up in my mailbox. I will do an A-B-comparison with the soundtrack this weekend so see (or hear, as it were) if there are any differences. Even if it is pitch-corrected it might still be running 4% too fast, that should still be noticeable (104 bpm instead of 100...)
/Mikael

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#8 of 248 OFFLINE   Brendon

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Posted December 13 2001 - 10:06 PM

Richard,

This bodes well: I may have to aquire the region 4 version, just so I can listen to this wonder in DTS!

Mikael,

I'd appreciate knowing how you get on with your A-B comparison.

This has got to be one of the few films I can think of where I will have almost no hesitation in replacing my current copy just for that last extra degree of perfection.

Surely this has to be a contender for best film at next years Oscars ??

Cheers,

Bren

#9 of 248 OFFLINE   Pierre Gagne

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Posted December 13 2001 - 11:31 PM

I have the R1 canadian version. Watched it last night in DTS on a SD-3108 Toshiba player and encountered no lipsync problems with the track. BTW, DTS is the way to listen to this movie, let me tell you.

Pierre

#10 of 248 OFFLINE   Mikal Haydn

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Posted December 14 2001 - 12:18 PM

Got the R1 version made in canada and it played the 1st 30mins with no lipsync problems on my Pioneer DV-233 (equivalent to the DV-343 in the US).

#11 of 248 OFFLINE   Mikael Soderholm

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Posted December 15 2001 - 09:50 PM

OK, this was not quite as easy as I'd thought. Turns out the soundtrack CD I have is not a soundtrack as such, but music from the movie, which means the songs have been re-recorded, edited etc.

Anyway, I popped it in my old LD-player (a Pioneer CLD-600) and the Moulin Rouge R4 DVD in my DVD-player (A Pioneer DV-515) and tried to compare a couple of songs. Obviously they run at different speed (pitch-corrected or not, PAL is still 4% faster than the original film) which complicates the comparison, but as far as I could tell, Moulin Rouge is not pitch-corrected Posted Image. Now, I don't have perfect pitch, so I could be mistaken, and also my testing conditions weren't ideal, but there it is...

To me, this is only noticeable in a direct comparison (and even then not obvious), so I'm gonna keep my R4 anyway.

Another thing that caught my attention re this soundtrack (or 'music from the movie') is the presence of David Bowie. I wondered why I hadn't recognized his voice when I saw the movie, but it turns out he is not in the movie (Joe Leguziamo sings Nature Boy), he only sings it on the soundtrack. Why? And why is Ozzy Osbourne credited as the voice as the Green Fairy, it sure sounds like Kylie to me? And why is Pacido Domingo the Man in the Moon in the movie, but not on the soundtrack? Questions, questions. So if this whole soundtrack has been re-recorded, is it really valid to compare it to the movie like I did? Seems to me we still don't know if this DVD is actually pich-corrected or notPosted Image
/Mikael

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-"Life. I love life, very much indeed."
David Bowie interviewed by Russell Harty, 1973

#12 of 248 OFFLINE   Richard Michael Clark

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Posted December 15 2001 - 09:59 PM

Mikael
The R4 sleeve notes say:

"The following credits in the motion picture 'Moulin Rouge' were accidently omitted:
Singing voice of the Green Fairy - Kylie Minogue
Costume Jewelry - Kym Bywater"

Rich

#13 of 248 OFFLINE   Lin Weiwen

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Posted December 16 2001 - 02:20 AM

I have the R1 dvd and didn't encountered any lip sync problems. Mine player's a Pioneer too.

#14 of 248 OFFLINE   Seth Paxton

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Posted December 16 2001 - 02:26 AM

Yes, Ozzy only does the scream of the Green Fairy as far as I know.

On a JVC R1, no DTS synch problem.

#15 of 248 OFFLINE   Craig Crane

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Posted December 16 2001 - 02:31 AM

I experienced no problems what so ever on either the HTPC or the two Sony machines in my rack.

#16 of 248 OFFLINE   Hakan Powers

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Posted December 17 2001 - 09:48 AM

I watched MR earlier tonight and did experience lip-sync errors on the DTS track. I have a Pioneer DV-525.

The DTS track felt like it had the edge over the DD track but as soon as the first song began the lipsync problem became glaringly obvious.

Dolby 5.1 track is unaffected (luckilly!)
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#17 of 248 OFFLINE   Roger Mathus

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Posted December 17 2001 - 10:23 AM

Can you give a reference time mark where the problem is easy to spot? I have both Pioneer DV-AX10 and Sony 9000ES in my system and can check and compare using Region 1 disc.

#18 of 248 OFFLINE   Hakan Powers

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Posted December 17 2001 - 08:13 PM

Roger,

Any song/dance number should be a good spot to test. It is very noticeable in these. Try out the Elephant Medley or Satines first number.
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#19 of 248 OFFLINE   Sam Hatch

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Posted December 18 2001 - 01:33 AM

I spun up the R1 yesterday morn on my Panny A120 and sure enough, there was some fair amount of lip flap on the DTS track. Not horrible, but just bad enough to be annoying. Watching the musical scenes in both formats, Dolby Digital was always spot on.

Bummer. I was looking forward to checking it out in DTS this weekend. Guess I'll have to settle for 'plain old' Dolby Digital!
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#20 of 248 OFFLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted December 18 2001 - 08:17 AM

Anyone try a Toshiba 3109? -- man, the studios really need to improve Q/A and to take defects seriously.

I still haven't bought Python's Grail, and I stopped myself from buying Moulin Rouge also...

Ted
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